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Pat C

4 point harness

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Pat C

I want to put Sparco R100 in my Miata and it is not a full race seat more of a Sport seat. I can only do 4 pt harness that are FIA approved. My question if I am doing just HPDE and maybe TT does 4 pt harness qualify or do you need 5 pt?

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int2str

[Not an official here, just my opinion....]

The HPDE rules state:

Any harness or any restraint system, other than factory stock, shall conform to CCR section
#15.5

And in 15.5 we find:

All vehicles should have a five (5), six (6), or seven (7) point seat belt system.

So, no, 4pt harness does not qualify.

Also note that a 4pt harness is generally deemed dangerous for submarining risks. Also note that going to a rigid belt system (not spring tensioned like factory) requires use of a HANS device and helmet to be safe. So stick with 3-pt and no HANS, or go whole hog 5+ w/ HANS. Nothing in between please.

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427R

As an instructor pointed out to me when I first got started, on any given day, anything can happen.  He strongly recommend a HANS device, as it doesn't take much to make a good day, a bad day.  Knowing what I know now, after 12 years of being in NASA, I wouldn't think twice about wearing a HANS, even just starting out.

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Ale Sensoli

4point harness with Antisubmarine technology should be accepted I think. ( SCHROTH QUICKFIT PRO) 

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int2str
12 hours ago, Ale Sensoli said:

4point harness with Antisubmarine technology should be accepted I think. ( SCHROTH QUICKFIT PRO) 

No.

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jsbumed

CCR section 11.3 covers 4 point harnesses :  

Restraint system requirements are listed in Section #11.4.8. The only fourpoint belt systems that are allowed for use in HPDE / TT are 1) those that carry an “FIA B-xxx.T/98 certification, or 2) those that carry a label from the belt manufacturer stating that the belts meet Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard (FMVSS) 209 AND that the belts were designated for the specific vehicle (e.g. “For use only in BMW E36 models”). Such label must be easily visible to the NASA inspector. Note four-point belt sets that have a DOT-only certification are not allowed.

 

The last time I looked Schroth was the only manufacturer that met these requirements and a quick look shows that they don't make a Miata specific version.  If you find another manufacturer that meets all the requirements then it would be legal.  That being said, I personally wouldn't use a 4 point system even if it did meet the above requirements.  

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Ale Sensoli
1 hour ago, jsbumed said:

CCR section 11.3 covers 4 point harnesses :  

Restraint system requirements are listed in Section #11.4.8. The only fourpoint belt systems that are allowed for use in HPDE / TT are 1) those that carry an “FIA B-xxx.T/98 certification, or 2) those that carry a label from the belt manufacturer stating that the belts meet Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard (FMVSS) 209 AND that the belts were designated for the specific vehicle (e.g. “For use only in BMW E36 models”). Such label must be easily visible to the NASA inspector. Note four-point belt sets that have a DOT-only certification are not allowed.

 

The last time I looked Schroth was the only manufacturer that met these requirements and a quick look shows that they don't make a Miata specific version.  If you find another manufacturer that meets all the requirements then it would be legal.  That being said, I personally wouldn't use a 4 point system even if it did meet the above requirements.  

thanks

Why would you not use a 4 point with ASM?

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Ale Sensoli
3 hours ago, int2str said:

No.

yes :)

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jsbumed
2 hours ago, Ale Sensoli said:

thanks

Why would you not use a 4 point with ASM?

A variety of reasons for me.  The biggest is that since I race I am not allowed to have a 4 point.  Even if I were looking at HPDE only, there are no legal 4 point systems for me to use.  Assuming I had a vehicle that I could, to meet both the FIA and FMVSS spec the use of the harness is very restrictive.  Using Schroth as an example, the testing for those harnesses was only done with OEM seats and only if installed per their direction and with proper use, seating position, etc.  In your case, if they made a set for a Miata application (they don't) you are already not legal by replacing the seat.  Most people i see asking about 4 points are generally looking to use them outside of the very narrow allowed usage so as a general rule I don't like to see them.  They also seem like a compromise to me.  Will the ASM work in an impact: probably as long as long as you are in the narrow window of use.  Will it work as well as a properly used 5 or 6 point harness?  Who knows, there is no testing comparing the two.  

 

In general, the advice given to people when upgrading safety gear is to look at it as a system.  If you are looking at one thing, you should probably work on the trifecta; rollover protection, harnesses and seat (and head and neck restraint to use with the harnesses, but that is a separate conversation).  In your case, you are already required to have a rollbar to even run so I would suggest looking at a different seat that can accommodate a 5 or 6 (or 7) point harness.  The odds of finding a 4 point harness that meets all of the requirements are slim to none.  To be honest, while I was looking at Schroth's website I didn't see any mention of FIA certification on their 4 point belts so I don't know that there are any being made currently that would be legal in any car.  They are the only ones that I ever knew of that meet the requirements for any car so if this is the case then I imagine once any sets that are grandfathered in are gone the CCR may be updated to not allow any 4 point belts but that is just speculation on my part.  If you have any specific questions on any specific equipment feel free to shoot me a PM and I'll gladly answer to the best of my ability.  

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Ale Sensoli

for a Miata No doubt. 

I have a Mustang 18 so I dont need a rollbar ( rule speaking).

I just bought a rollbar that i will install soon. and I will buy a 6point harness no doubt.

I use the schroth with my neck restrain harness too.

I'm the classical example of " let's try this hobby with my 35k mustang" suddendly become " let's get the car only for the track ( and some dinner with the wife :) )

that is why the rollbar will come in just now. and the 4point ASM Schroth worked great

appreciate your input.  thanks!

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jsbumed

No problem.  Glad to hear you are heading in the right direction.  I started the same way as well.  Sorry about the continual Miata references.  The original poster mentioned a Miata and I failed to notice I was responding to a different person.  Oops!  Have fun with the Mustang.  The new ones are a great chassis.  I have one as a daily myself.

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