MemphisRob Posted October 25, 2021 Share Posted October 25, 2021 (edited) Although having 8 classes (1-6, plus EV and Unlimited) does allow for nearly any car to find a spot to be competitive, it seems that too many classes make it challenging to find enough competitors for each class on any given track weekend. Even at Nationals there were only 4 cars in TT5 and 2 in TT6. At my last track weekend there was a full paddock but only 3 competitors in each of TT1/TT2/TT3/TT4/TT5. Aside from hoping to have more “in class” competition, almost all contingencies require at least 5 competitors to qualify. What if we condensed to 4 classes? Combine TT6 with TT5, 4/3, and 2/1. Let EVs get a dyno and compete where they fit power/weight or go without a dyno and compete in TTU. I was thinking that we split the difference. ST1/TT1 - 6.00:1 1/2 - 7:1 ST2/TT2 - 8.00:1 ST3/TT3 - 10.00:1 3/4 - 11:1 ST4/TT4 - 12.00:1 ST5/TT5 - 14.00:1 5/6 - 16:1 ST6/TT6 - 18.00:1 i also think we should review the tire modifiers. I think we need another modifier for cars running a 200TW+ tire. It doesn’t make sense that a Toyo RR is equal to a full treaded “summer tire”. My experience is with TT but I think it holds true with ST as well. I’d welcome others feedback on this as well as I don’t know how it is in other regions (EDITED on 11/18/2021) Just to add some context now that my idea has been considered. It seems the consensus is that most members would NOT want to condense the classes. I don't want to push a rule change that doesn't have majority support... so we will have to try and figure out how to fill more classes the good ole fashioned way... recruit more members!! Edited November 18, 2021 by MemphisRob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UrbanKnight Posted October 26, 2021 Share Posted October 26, 2021 It gets easier when you realize NASA couldn't care less about TT..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MemphisRob Posted October 26, 2021 Author Share Posted October 26, 2021 11 hours ago, UrbanKnight said: It gets easier when you realize NASA couldn't care less about TT..... I don’t think that is true. I am confident that NASA’s best interests lie in growing all programs… and having successful and accessible competitive program like TT for drivers that want to progress from HPDE is important. It’s often the gateway drug into W2W as well. At least at is for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RecklessactN Posted October 26, 2021 Share Posted October 26, 2021 I like the idea of adding 200tw into the mix. That category has great value for the grip and should help move higher HP cars into lower classes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Clarke Posted October 26, 2021 Share Posted October 26, 2021 We need a 200TW modifier for TT Classes and it should be significant. It really helps get people from DE3 into TT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Clarke Posted October 26, 2021 Share Posted October 26, 2021 If you consolidate classes and add a 200tw rule, it would really open higher HP cars to run a 200tw and mix and match better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daytonars4 Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 (edited) The rules are significantly different between ST3 and ST4. Then add on the modifiers and you’d have many ST4 cars that wouldn’t even be able to reach the “newly” merged limits. Also have to factor that in some regions, like MidAtlantic, ST3 is a pretty strong class with 7-10 cars some events. ST4 is nonexistent. So you expect everyone in ST3 to have to retune and slow down their cars for basically no added car count. This would not go over well at all. There are probably a couple things that should be reviewed on tires. The 200tw bonus being higher, along with a negative mod for >305mm tires. Doesn’t really make sense to have a car on 285’s have the same 0 mod as a car on 335’s. If the purpose of mods is for BOP, that’s clearly not balanced. Now the new Vette runs 345’s in the rear! Just going to let that continue to get the 0 mod? Edited October 31, 2021 by daytonars4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yuba Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 (edited) On 10/25/2021 at 4:50 PM, MemphisRob said: i also think we should review the tire modifiers. I think we need another modifier for cars running a 200TW+ tire. It doesn’t make sense that a Toyo RR is equal to a full treaded “summer tire”. I am somewhat confused by this statement given that there are a number of 200tw tires that are quicker than the RR/RC1/NT01 I do agree that tire points need to change, and it is my understanding that they will be. Edited November 2, 2021 by yuba Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
National Staff Greg G. Posted November 10, 2021 National Staff Share Posted November 10, 2021 On 10/25/2021 at 5:54 PM, UrbanKnight said: It gets easier when you realize NASA couldn't care less about TT..... Winner for the most ridiculous statement of the year!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
National Staff Greg G. Posted November 10, 2021 National Staff Share Posted November 10, 2021 On 11/2/2021 at 12:18 PM, yuba said: I am somewhat confused by this statement given that there are a number of 200tw tires that are quicker than the RR/RC1/NT01 I do agree that tire points need to change, and it is my understanding that they will be. Yes, there are "200tw" tires that are faster than 100 tw tires, and 100 tw tires as fast/faster than some 40tw tires. TW has always been fairly meaningless other than we knew exactly which tires were labeled as 100tw, and all of the tires we desired at a certain Mod Factor were caught in that catch phrase. We now have some outliers that will be excluded. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
National Staff Greg G. Posted November 10, 2021 National Staff Share Posted November 10, 2021 On 10/25/2021 at 4:50 PM, MemphisRob said: Although having 8 classes (1-6, plus EV and Unlimited) does allow for nearly any car to find a spot to be competitive, it seems that too many classes make it challenging to find enough competitors for each class on any given track weekend. Even at Nationals there were only 4 cars in TT5 and 2 in TT6. At my last track weekend there was a full paddock but only 3 competitors in each of TT1/TT2/TT3/TT4/TT5. Aside from hoping to have more “in class” competition, almost all contingencies require at least 5 competitors to qualify. What if we condensed to 4 classes? Combine TT6 with TT5, 4/3, and 2/1. Let EVs get a dyno and compete where they fit power/weight or go without a dyno and compete in TTU. I was thinking that we split the difference. ST1/TT1 - 6.00:1 1/2 - 7:1 ST2/TT2 - 8.00:1 ST3/TT3 - 10.00:1 3/4 - 11:1 ST4/TT4 - 12.00:1 ST5/TT5 - 14.00:1 5/6 - 16:1 ST6/TT6 - 18.00:1 i also think we should review the tire modifiers. I think we need another modifier for cars running a 200TW+ tire. It doesn’t make sense that a Toyo RR is equal to a full treaded “summer tire”. My experience is with TT but I think it holds true with ST as well. I’d welcome others feedback on this as well as I don’t know how it is in other regions Large scale changes like this have huge negative repercussions--pretty much, "lets upset 80% of our drivers". And, FYI, in some regions TT5/ST5 is the biggest class regularly. The different regions have different clusters of cars. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MemphisRob Posted November 10, 2021 Author Share Posted November 10, 2021 18 minutes ago, Greg G. said: Large scale changes like this have huge negative repercussions--pretty much, "lets upset 80% of our drivers". And, FYI, in some regions TT5/ST5 is the biggest class regularly. The different regions have different clusters of cars. Thanks Greg. I had posed the question for discussion on Facebook and that was the consensus. I think we would all like to figure out how to fill more classes, but running less than 6 P/W classes was not a very popular idea it turns out. I think there may be some room for consolidation in the W2W classes... but there is no such thing as a change that everyone will like. Just know that I appreciate what you do Greg... and I would not have any interest in doing it myself. I'm looking forward to seeing what changes are being considered and how we can make the leap to competitive driving even more attractive. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcolangelo2005 Posted November 18, 2021 Share Posted November 18, 2021 Personally, I don't want to see the class structure changed. It seems to be working quite well from what I've seen in SoCal and NorCal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MemphisRob Posted November 18, 2021 Author Share Posted November 18, 2021 That seemed to be the consensus. The idea didn't have much member support. I am good with whatever is best for the collective. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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