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wvonkessler

Interest in Euro style rally cross?

Do you have an interest in prepping a vehicle for and running in a regional European style rallycross series?  

14 members have voted

  1. 1. Do you have an interest in prepping a vehicle for and running in a regional European style rallycross series?

    • I am on the East Coast, and I would commit absolutely to running in a six race regional series for 2004.
      3
    • I am on the East Coast, and I have an interest in running a six race regional series for 2004, but cannot commit absolutely at this time.
      9
    • I am on the West Coast, and I would commit absolutely to running in a six race regional series for 2004.
      0
    • I am on the West Coast, and I have an interest in running a six race regional series for 2004, but cannot commit absolutely at this time.
      2


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Knestis

...which is the reason I am so interested in NASA's venture into this discipline. The potential is HUGE.

 

K

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gapzero

i just wanna race, see guys how when we get along, things start to work a litlle better. now i think as far as rules go, safety should be first, car prep second. mainly becuase you have some non rally cars that would be good for this, but dont fit in safety wise, such as mg's, and other convertable cars, where as you know all "rally" cars have to have hard tops, and other things of the sort, etc...

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starion887

Not interested at all. Have hands full with regular rallyuing!

 

Mark

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HAL9000

Wilson:

 

Euro style RallyCross:

Absolutely great idea! My fingers are tingling just thinking about it.

 

How much are you willing to pay for a weekend of wheel to wheel rally? How far are you willing to travel? Can you convince your friends to compete?

 

Car rules are going to be very important to me from a cost perspective. From my standpoint, I need to be able to drag some cheap car from under a tree, put a safety cage in it, and race. Anymore investment than that and I've got too much in the car to allow someone else a chance at hitting it. But, with a cheap car, I'd have fun beating it up at a racetrack like that. Maybe a "$1000 challenge" class? (claim rules like local tracks have). I couldn't see myself being able to race with less than $1000 in a car, since that's what it takes to put a safety cage + other equip in it.

 

I could see myself driving up to 4 hours to get to an event.

 

I look forward to it, vroooom!

 

-Aaron

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mothra

A couple of generic comments to through out in this. In order for people to come the cars must be both exciting to watch moving and standing still. Look at arena trucks. This means in my mind high horsepower and turbo. Look at the spec.s on traditional EuroRallyX cars (FAST!). The promoter is looking to put on a show for the spectators and nothing does it better than high horsepower, turbo, straight piped, rally cars. I say 2 classes 1 2wd and 1 4wd. Big power with either tuned N/A or turbo. If you bring in enough money nobody cares about the mess made to the track.

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MVT

Might need a 3rd class then: Slow Cars (aka Stock - or nearly so)

 

I know that what I had in mind does not meet the criteria of 'turbo', 'high horsepower', or 'high speed'.

 

However entrants for this 'stock' class are readily available and already built, but may require a good bit of work to convince the them to try out RallyCross.

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mothra

Actually I was excluding stock or slow cars in my mind. I don't know for sure but I think this is the case in EuroRallyX, which was originally a place for the Group B cars after they were banned.

 

The idea is to create a truely specatacular SHOW to get fans excited about rally in a safe and traditional format.

 

Nobody would go to a monster truck rally to see a stock Toyota Tacoma or a stock Ford F150 go through the paces. The fans go to see something outrageous and that is excatly what EuroRallyX cars are. Ridiculously powerful monsters.

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HAL9000
The idea is to create a truely specatacular SHOW to get fans excited about rally in a safe and traditional format.

Nobody would go to a monster truck rally to see a stock Toyota Tacoma or a stock Ford F150 go through the paces. The fans go to see something outrageous and that is excatly what EuroRallyX cars are. Ridiculously powerful monsters

 

I'm not coming down on your point specifically (and I definitely am not taking issue with your post in particular), but this struck a chord with me... so I'm getting on my soap-box:

 

As you mentioned, competitiors have to invest alot into the cars for them to be "fancy" in a spectators eyes. I'm not interested in spending myself into bankruptcy just to make one competitive car as a minimum required to compete, then cry when it gets banged up (being more likely to get banged-up on a door-to-door style race).

Maybe I'm in the minority here, maybe everyone else here can affort to have a fleet of showroom/prototype fancy turbo-charged cars; but that's not me. It depends on if the racing is being put on for the racers, or for the spectators. It's possible to do both at the same time, but be carfull to strike a ballance, and please save room for the little-guy like me.

 

-Aaron

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Knestis

Comments about AWD turbo monsters ingore the reality that there are only a handful of those things competing in European Rallycross or in England, where there is actually a history and following for this type of motorsport. There ARE other classes running at those events and the largest are typically the little 2wd cars - for the same reason that they would make sense for a new US program.

 

It is a somewhat Eurocentric view to suggest that 'merican fans prefer technology and noise to actual competition on the track. NASCAR Cup cars could easily go way faster than they do but are technology-limited. Some of the most popular - in terms of both participation and fan appeal - classes of local short-track stock cars are the slowest.

 

If a rallycross series grows to the point that it can support $50-100K cars, that's great - I'll watch on TV - but it's got to walk before it can run. The target (heck, claimer) price for a car should be in the $3-4K range.

 

K

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randyzimmer

After all this time, two have said, "when and where" and seven have said, "if the wife lets me, it isn't too far, if I have the cash and I feel like it, I may build a car... if I get a big sponsor".

Not too good.

I know from ice racing and rallyx (both are easy to do and just need a small comitment) its like pulling teeth to get someone to do it - add distance, like a series, and it it even harder to pull off.

so,

1. build from a base - have a "home" like Beaver to do the startup.

2. don't allow contact - its hard enough to get people out.

3. two cars at a time - makes the show last longer and if there's a bump, it is easy to point the finger and proclaim fault.

4. keep turbos out.

5. threaten a claiming rule to keep it under control.

6. if it does get to the point of making a show and paying money, consider dropping prize money and pay for attendance.

Grow it, don't blow it.

rz

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mothra

I think that Randy has spelled out a development model that would likely work.

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MVT

Is there any more being done on this idea?

 

What can be done to push this idea to the next level?

 

With the way the Rally season had gone, just wondering if the time isn't right to see if we can't get something going on this idea.

 

Is the idea far enough along to set up a test run? Maybe set up a European RallyX event to coincide with one of next years NASA Rallys?

 

I know there is a poll, but how many folks are actually serious about participating if a test event were put on the schedule for next year?

 

p.s. I'm one of the ones that voted YES-BUT

My only holdback is towing distance - I don't see myself towing from Florida to Maine (or even PA) for an event. However if there are enough events spread thruout the East Coast, I'd attend all that I could.

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starion887

No interest. here. Have plenty to do to keep a rally car going for several events per year. But don't stop on our account.

 

Mark & Duffy

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MVT

Do you guys have any more rallys planned for the remainder of the year?

 

Have you done any since we saw you at Cherokee Trails?

 

I've got a car we're building for the 4-cyl class at our local dirt track. Plan on doing some rallycross with it if we can, but this european rallycross thing sound like it'd be a perfect fit for our car.

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wvonkessler

Mark and Duffy were in Maine, and hopefully will be at NY, although they don't have to be, because they have won M1 in the ESRC.

 

As to euro style rallycross, there just hasn't been time since we have been focused on just getting the ESRC together, plus laying groundwork for other stage events. Want to take this on Maurice?

 

Regards,

 

Wilson

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MVT
...Want to take this on?...

 

As much as I'd like to, and as much as I've racked my brain to think of something/anything to further this idea, I don't believe I'm the one that is going to be able to make it work.

 

The (first) major stumbling block I see would be locations capable of holding such an event. The PA location sounds good, I've heard a lot of good things about it from different folks. However, I can think of no places in my area that would be capable (or at least willing) to hold this type event.

 

Sure, there are some big fields good for (American) RallyCross type events, flat and open. But I don't know if they could support multiple vehicles at the same time adequately. And finding something with 'unused' tarmac would be difficult.

 

Not saying it's impossible, there's probably several possible sites scattered throughout the East, but none that I know of.

 

You may remember that we discussed some 'offroad' races that were being held in GA/AL. The one I saw was pretty much a flat open field that had a couple drainage ditches (which they used at 2 not-so-steep points for a water crossing), then added a couple dumps of dirt to make jumps. Of course, there was no tarmac part.

 

Our jumps shouldn't be as dramatic, nothing much more than the humps you find on the Cherokee Trails roads. Elevation changes would be nice.

 

You know, one of these days, some organization (like NASA or similar) is going to realize that they need to pony up some money and buy a thousand or so acres for their own Motorsport Park (or Parks).

 

Until then, I'll keep looking and thinking. Any idea as to how or if a European RallyCross could be co-hosted during a NASA Rally? I don't know if the 'lake area' at Cheraw could support (or would allow) something like this, and I can't think of a large enough area at RallyTenn/Cherokee Trails.

 

I would be willing to keep discussing this idea with those that answered Yes or Yes, but... to see if we can come up with some tangible ideas.

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MVT

The Vision::::

 

sosnova.gif

 

baranauskaspolo.jpg

 

volvo.jpg

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MVT

<>

 

http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/events/0306scc_rallycross/

 

excerpt from that article:

 

"Rallycross is spectacular, intense and lovely to watch," said 2002 ERC champion Kenneth Hansen, and no one at the Estring would argue. With most, if not all, of the action visible from the spectating areas, rallycross might have a future here in the stadium-sports-oriented U.S. If the rumors of a planned rallycross track here are true, the Europeans are certainly willing and eager to bring their show across the pond. Keep your fingers crossed."

 

Anyone ever heard anything about this???

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MVT

Speaking of 'offroad races', maybe this is the solution (or one of the solutions. I know there are a couple offroad race series running around (SCORE, CORR, NOORA, SESCORS, SNORE, SODA, etc)

 

Maybe we need to be talking to some of these folks about use of their tracks, or maybe just running during one of their events. There would have to be a way to 'bypass' the larger jumps and whoops, but the tracks already there. (Guess we might have to forego the 'tarmac' portion for the time being until something is found or built to accomodate a dirt/tarmac track)

 

I'll see if I can't contact the guys I met down here from SESCORS and see if they're still doing anything. I haven't seen or heard anything from them since that event a couple years ago.

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pride-n-motion-motorsport

A few years ago along with the truck and buggy short course off road races, they ran a class for rally cars and bypassed the jumps and whoops. It seemed to work ok as far as I could tell, I did not get to bypass them in my buggy.

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pride-n-motion-motorsport

By the way that was in Southern California at the Glen Helen off road track.

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KentD

I think that Randy touched on a very important item.

"rubbing fenders" should be very limited.

It gets expensive too quickly with unrestricted fender rubbing.

 

I love watching the euro rallycrosses. But it seems to get the ball rolling, costs must be watched closely.

While it might make the event slightly less intense for the spectators,

how about a "timed" event, with multiple cars on the track at the same time.

This way, you're not trying to nudge the guy in front of you as you race for the checkered flag.

Would that make for the same "wheel to wheel" racing, yet lower the agression levels.

 

Sure, there would still be unintentional contact, but it might reduce the contact (and consequently the cost) somewhat?

(Use transponders ala solo1 for timing)

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team illuminata

Did this ever go anywhere?

 

We have a similar thing in development in Michigan and I would love to see it develop into the Euro Style version.

 

http://www.teamilluminata.com./superrallyx.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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