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Rule Proposal - Closing GTS to non-German marques


Brian Go
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The revised official 2022 rules include allowing competitors with other marquees to be considered for regional competitive racing. While, I always enjoy the opportunity to expand the network of drivers in our sport, and to allow others to push my professional growth and driving expertise, I do have some concerns as to how these alternative manufacturers can impact the nature of our racing category. The history of our touring series has allowed us to fine tune the competing strengths of the series and manufacturers. Historically, keeping the manufacturers limited to the ones listed in the rule book has proven an effective strategy to attract like minded competitors who have the ability to push each other to improve their racing performance and strategies in a manner that is safe, inclusive and competitive. Ultimately, we are all here to embrace the opportunity to compete in a series where the breadth and depth of cars built to the category rules, allow us to ensure a fair but highly competitive race experience. Bringing in other marquee manufacturers can inadvertently create excessive gaps in the engineering builds of the cars, and an widely uneven competitive field. The current group of eligible manufacturers is attractive to incoming drivers and I would hate to lose some of our seasoned drivers with a widely diluted playing field. The rules allow for the exception in regional competition only. If the exemption seems to be unfit for the national level, it should be for the regional level too. Our goal is our regional competitors are inspired and driven to push toward the national playing field. Changing the regional playing field will only deter these competitors rather than inspire them.

Brian #428 GTS2 NASANE

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Well said Brian.

I feel that NASA has enough classing for every Marque to compete in ,

If this becomes a permanent GTS change, I feel it will be the end of a great series and classing as we know it for all series and not a rebirth. 

Barry

#567 GTS2 NASANE

 

Edited by Aussiebj64
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Well said.  I echo Brian's rule proposal particularly for this important part:

The rules allow for the exception in regional competition only. If the exemption seems to be unfit for the national level, it should be for the regional level too. Our goal is our regional competitors are inspired and driven to push toward the national playing field. Changing the regional playing field will only deter these competitors rather than inspire them

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

I agree with Brian’s proposal. I do not support bringing in non-German cars into GTS on both a regional or National level.

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Just to be clear, GTS allowed regional participation for non- German luxury marquees like Ferrari, Lamborghini for many years. Alongside, we allowed others like Volvo and Nissan on a single exception basis, when those cars didn’t have corresponding regional classes (ST) to join. 
Is this proposal targets all and every non-German car? If yes, we may need to revisit the definition of German as rules see it. Is it a chassis? engine? VIN, manufacturers? Is MINI German? If yes - is new Toyota Supra German sharing components design and production with BMW? Is Lamborghini German being part owned by Audi / VW? What about many other brands owned and co-owned by German marquees? Is Z4 German being produced in South Carolina. 
if we go the route of excluding all non-German, we need to first agree on how do we define it. 

If the concern is the apparent advantage  in the design of particular makes and models - we see that among German cars as well - some have better aerodynamic (Porsches vs. BMWs for example) and some have much better suspension design as well. The series was never intended to be a single make for a class. It did happen before and will happen again when certain model dominates given class until the new one comes along changing the landscape. 
It might be a better way to access the technical side of it and see if anything may need to be addressed. 
 

Thank you for submitting the proposals.
 

Michael G.

GTS Nat. Dir.

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I think this is part of the issue where any car can participate in GTS on an exception basis and yet these same cars are not allowed in Nationals which goes to my rule proposal change.
Also the rule set is essentially open as we are designing our cars around a rule book which we think is set and defined when in reality it’s not. 
 

Brian Goodman

NASA NE GTS2

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Brian,

Few issues we need to find the answers to collectively. 
We’ve had many discussions through the years trying to define German car. Needless to say, in the environment of the Global economy it is nearly impossible nowadays. I can make a long list of examples making this definition from difficult to nearly impossible, unless we will agree on the approach. More importantly - the trend of a very blurry line in defining the geographic belonging of a car will become even more difficult with time.

Our rule book is open and set. The unknown is a potential competitor who can bring the car more potent and better developed whether German or not. We have plenty of German examples which we rarely see, but could quickly change the landscape of the series if to show up. 
 

Regarding Regional or National participation - regions always had flexibility of accommodating certain cars to different classes based on the need and circumstance.

My understanding that the interest and push for the experiment of the opening the series on the Regional level was driven by large number of drivers in the last few years - you can simply follow the threads on the same forum from a year ago. We will evaluate the feedback from all regions and see where the majority of the opinions stays. Lately the demarcation line seems to be drawn in relation to the rule format open or close - not the geography. But if we continue to use German as a reference, we better decide soon how to define it and what is included or excluded.

Again, the decision to open the series to non - German cars regionally last year was in order to test the interest from the drivers.

We will decide how to continue to the best of the interest of the majority of racers.
Thank you.

 

Michael G.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I disagree with this. We are perfectly content with having non-German cars in both GTS2 and GTS3 in Midatlantic. If you guys huddle up about it in NE and decide you don't want to allow it there , then you guys do that on your own. Allow other regions to make their own decisions. We've been racing non-German cars in ST3 in Midatlantic the last 2 years. Also paid attention to ST4 and TT4 times. We are perfectly fine with having the American and other cars join us in the move back to GTS3 which is a ruleset that creates a more balanced battle than the uneven setup given by the ST3 rules. So just leave this decision at the regional level as it has been. We don't need or want NE to dictate what we do in MA.

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Daytonars4 ,, we are only proposing this change in the NE so you can relax...Life is good be happy change is hard for everyone..

Barry Smith

#567

GTS 2

NASA NE

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  • 4 weeks later...
On 10/24/2022 at 1:26 PM, daytonars4 said:

I disagree with this. We are perfectly content with having non-German cars in both GTS2 and GTS3 in Midatlantic. If you guys huddle up about it in NE and decide you don't want to allow it there , then you guys do that on your own. Allow other regions to make their own decisions. We've been racing non-German cars in ST3 in Midatlantic the last 2 years. Also paid attention to ST4 and TT4 times. We are perfectly fine with having the American and other cars join us in the move back to GTS3 which is a ruleset that creates a more balanced battle than the uneven setup given by the ST3 rules. So just leave this decision at the regional level as it has been. We don't need or want NE to dictate what we do in MA.

What non-German cars have been running in GTS-2 MA for the last years?  And I am not sure about the "we" statement...

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