ssmith Posted November 14, 2022 Share Posted November 14, 2022 Some competitors have taken to running two, sometimes even three sets of Hoosiers tires in a regular regional race in ST4. At $1800 per set of tires, that makes it very expensive for others to try to compete. It doesn't help that last weekend, three different competitors complained about their Hoosiers dropping 3-4 seconds/lap after 3 sessions; if this is the new normal this is just going to increase the desire to spend to compete. It would be nice for there to be a rule to limit this, though I recognize from a practical standpoint implementation may be quite difficult. I was told Trans Am uses an ink stamp; the tires could be stamped after the first qualifying session and then verified each session afterwards that the stamp-of-the-weekend tires were used. I assume custom bar codes are out of the question. There is also the question on penalty for violating the rule; is starting from the back enough or would it have to be bigger (20-30s penalty on finishing position?) Maybe it's too much of a headache given how few people are doing this but it seems worth addressing one way or another? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrgsquared Posted November 14, 2022 Share Posted November 14, 2022 (edited) On 11/14/2022 at 3:12 PM, ssmith said: Some competitors have taken to running two, sometimes even three sets of Hoosiers tires in a regular regional race in ST4. At $1800 per set of tires, that makes it very expensive for others to try to compete. It doesn't help that last weekend, three different competitors complained about their Hoosiers dropping 3-4 seconds/lap after 3 sessions; if this is the new normal this is just going to increase the desire to spend to compete. It would be nice for there to be a rule to limit this, though I recognize from a practical standpoint implementation may be quite difficult. I was told Trans Am uses an ink stamp; the tires could be stamped after the first qualifying session and then verified each session afterwards that the stamp-of-the-weekend tires were used. I assume custom bar codes are out of the question. There is also the question on penalty for violating the rule; is starting from the back enough or would it have to be bigger (20-30s penalty on finishing position?) Maybe it's too much of a headache given how few people are doing this but it seems worth addressing one way or another? Hey @ssmithI am not sure what cars in ST4 were falling off 3-4 seconds PER lap after three sessions, but something tells me it's not just the tires in that scenario but track conditions, how new the tires were and the car's weight. While I understand the idea of limiting tire sets, I'm not sure it'd be a good idea to start policing stuff like that because like you said, implementing that is difficult and it also risks being a deterrent for people signing up. There's a reason why we have a 282mm width cap in ST4 - to keep big budget builds from showing up on 315s I am unsure what size tire you run (assuming they are Hoosiers), but I hear you. The cost of tires is one of the reasons I've tried out three different tire models in the past two seasons in ST5. I know ST4 has more power and performance, but there are definitely options here to save a few $ on your end. I recommend trying out other tire models. I am moving to ST4 for 2023. I have run Hoosier R7s, Toyo RRs, and Maxxis RC1s the past two seasons. Two weekends ago, I got my first ST5 victory on used 10+HC 255/40/17 Maxxis RC-1 in 70 degree weather. I started 2nd out of 8 cars and WON. There was one car on Toyo RRs and all the rest were on R7s. Not sure if you can make the power for the +1.0 or +1.6 tire factor, but it does keep costs lower and helps having power in traffic. I was not expecting to like the Maxxis RC-1s as much as I did, but boy do they light up fast. It's just the part about keeping them alive for 30-35 minutes. Very impressed for a tire that costs under $250 (for a 255/40/17). Cheers, Griffin Edited December 7, 2022 by mrgsquared Edited for cost of tire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ssmith Posted November 14, 2022 Author Share Posted November 14, 2022 The data may be a red herring. I don't want to get too deep into this aspect though as it can shift batch to batch. My main point is to discourage spending $3600-$5400/weekend on tires. I understand more rules/hassle can be a deterrent, but seeing a front runner using stickers for qual and every race can also be a deterrent for people signing up. Maybe it isn't a big enough deal to make a rule out it yet but I wanted to make it known that it is happening by a couple drivers in our region. At least in our region in ST4, we haven't seen any other tire be competitive. I think in ST5 the extra 1.6 is more valuable than in ST4 as you need it more to push through the air. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daytonars4 Posted November 16, 2022 Share Posted November 16, 2022 Even in ST3 I’ve never seen guys have a 3-4s drop after 3 sessions so it definitely sounds like something strange going on. For a R7 I’ve seen guys podium on 8-10 HC tires. Maybe it’s about a 1-1.5s drop off from HC1 to 10. An A7 you maybe see that 1s a little sooner, like around HC5. But since you are talking about ST4 I suspect it’s an R7. If someone wants to use a set of stickers everyday then have at it. But I don’t think it’s even enough of a pace advantage to waste time and energy running around the paddock marking peoples tires. It’s a good way to run off new racers without much benefit. We had a decent ST5 field in Midatlantic for about a year. The protesting and accusations of cheating got completely out of hand and literally killed the class. Sometimes you can go too far with things. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Aalders Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 Tires.. practice all weekend on the used set from the previous race weekend.. Then I've always found the best way to run tires is use a sticker set with higher than normal pressure for Qualy and put up to 4 laps in. Bleed the air off to even and then race on that set.. Anyone racing on sticker tires in my opinion isn't going to have the advantage over a lightly scrubbed in set of tires with proper pressures. It's difficult to get that air pressure correct on a sticker set and make them last all race. So I always smile when someone is trying to race on a new set. I've never seen them win a race in a competitive group of good drivers. For a sunday race I would qualy on my sat race set and race on them again. 1 new set of tires per race weekend. Our spec Z field was huge and full of talent. None of the consistent podium drivers used more than 1 new set a weekend. The deep pocket guys would go through countless sets.. Never made a difference. Just gave us cheap tires to buy from them when they were done with them at 4 hc. I am turning my Z into an st-4 car this offseason. It'll be interesting running on R7's to see the difference. Thats just my take. I'm sure drivers win on new sets of tires all the time, but in an extremely competitive group in my region I haven't. A solid qualy lap is the most important lap for timing. The race laps are all about 90% race craft 10% car setup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ahmad Lutfeali Posted March 3, 2023 Share Posted March 3, 2023 Folks, is there clarity on the new Yokohama A055? Are they a no mod tire (to compete with R7s)? TIA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
National Staff Greg G. Posted March 8, 2023 National Staff Share Posted March 8, 2023 On 3/3/2023 at 11:37 AM, Ahmad Lutfeali said: Folks, is there clarity on the new Yokohama A055? Are they a no mod tire (to compete with R7s)? TIA Yes, it is a no Mod Factor tire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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