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2023 Rule Requst: Tire set limitations


ssmith
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Some competitors have taken to running two, sometimes even three sets of Hoosiers tires in a regular regional race in ST4.  At $1800 per set of tires, that makes it very expensive for others to try to compete.  It doesn't help that last weekend, three different competitors complained about their Hoosiers dropping 3-4 seconds/lap after 3 sessions; if this is the new normal this is just going to increase the desire to spend to compete.

It would be nice for there to be a rule to limit this, though I recognize from a practical standpoint implementation may be quite difficult.  I was told Trans Am uses an ink stamp; the tires could be stamped after the first qualifying session and then verified each session afterwards that the stamp-of-the-weekend tires were used.  I assume custom bar codes are out of the question.

There is also the question on penalty for violating the rule; is starting from the back enough or would it have to be bigger (20-30s penalty on finishing position?)

Maybe it's too much of a headache given how few people are doing this but it seems worth addressing one way or another?

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1 hour ago, ssmith said:

Some competitors have taken to running two, sometimes even three sets of Hoosiers tires in a regular regional race in ST4.  At $1800 per set of tires, that makes it very expensive for others to try to compete.  It doesn't help that last weekend, three different competitors complained about their Hoosiers dropping 3-4 seconds/lap after 3 sessions; if this is the new normal this is just going to increase the desire to spend to compete.

It would be nice for there to be a rule to limit this, though I recognize from a practical standpoint implementation may be quite difficult.  I was told Trans Am uses an ink stamp; the tires could be stamped after the first qualifying session and then verified each session afterwards that the stamp-of-the-weekend tires were used.  I assume custom bar codes are out of the question.

There is also the question on penalty for violating the rule; is starting from the back enough or would it have to be bigger (20-30s penalty on finishing position?)

Maybe it's too much of a headache given how few people are doing this but it seems worth addressing one way or another?

Hey @ssmithI am not sure what cars in ST4 were falling off 3-4 seconds PER lap after 3 sessions, but something tells me it's not just the tires in that scenario but track conditions, how new the tires were and car weight. While I understand the idea of limiting tire sets, I'm not sure it'd be a good idea to start policing stuff like that because like you said, implementing that is difficult and it also risks being a deterrent for people signing up. There's a reason why we have a 282mm width cap in ST4 - to keep big budget build from showing up on 315s ;) 

I am unsure what size tire you run (assuming they are Hoosiers), but I hear you - the cost of tires is one of the reasons I've tried out three different tire models in the past two seasons in ST5. I know ST4 has more power and performance, but there are definitely options here to save a few $ on your end. I recommend trying out other tire models. I am moving to ST4 for 2023.

I've run Hoosier R7s, Toyo RRs, and Maxxis RC1s the past two seasons. Two weekends ago, I got my first ST5 win on used 10+HC 255/40/17 Maxxis RC-1 in 70 degree weather - started 2nd out of 8 cars and WON. There was one car on Toyo RRs and all the rest on R7s. Not sure if you can make the power for the +1.0 or +1.6 tire factor, but it does keep costs lower and helps having power in traffic. I was not expecting to like the Maxxis RC-1s as much as I did, but boy do they light up fast. It's just the part about keeping them alive for 30-35 minutes. Very impressed for a tire that costs under $250 (for a 255/40/17).

Cheers

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The data may be a red herring.  I don't want to get too deep into this aspect though as it can shift batch to batch.  My main point is to discourage spending $3600-$5400/weekend on tires.  I understand more rules/hassle can be a deterrent, but seeing a front runner using stickers for qual and every race can also be a deterrent for people signing up.  Maybe it isn't a big enough deal to make a rule out it yet but I wanted to make it known that it is happening by a couple drivers in our region.

At least in our region in ST4, we haven't seen any other tire be competitive.  I think in ST5 the extra 1.6 is more valuable than in ST4 as you need it more to push through the air.

 

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Even in ST3 I’ve never seen guys have a 3-4s drop after 3 sessions so it definitely sounds like something strange going on. For a R7 I’ve seen guys podium on 8-10 HC tires. Maybe it’s about a 1-1.5s drop off from HC1 to 10. An A7 you maybe see that 1s a little sooner, like around HC5. But since you are talking about ST4 I suspect it’s an R7.

If someone wants to use a set of stickers everyday then have at it. But I don’t think it’s even enough of a pace advantage to waste time and energy running around the paddock marking peoples tires. It’s a good way to run off new racers without much benefit. We had a decent ST5 field in Midatlantic for about a year. The protesting and accusations of cheating got completely out of hand and literally killed the class. Sometimes you can go too far with things. 

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