TexaST-1 Posted April 1, 2006 Share Posted April 1, 2006 Hey Gang, For those of you still interested in persuing GPC which will be a NASA National class. Here is what I am currently doing: 1. GPC-1 will become GPC-2 and vvsa. 2. We are using Time Trial Points rules as a basis for setting GPC 1 & 2. Before anyone gets excited this is a preleminary run through and the final itteration has yet to be reached. What I am doing is going through these rules to see how my current car fits and comes out. Since I know what some of you are planning to do I am also taking that into consideration. Anyone who wants to run there car through the points as an exercise should just to see where they come out and get back to me. The first page of cars pretty well covers our group. There are several corrections I already know about and plan to revise. NASA's really wants the GPC Class and wants to fianlize this quickly. So any participation would be welcomed. Frank your car, as long as it hasn't changed from what we talked about, will still be in the new GPC-1 as is mine (Hopefully). Oh, and for anyone who doesn't already know me or noticed my spelling sucks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ledfoot2 Posted April 3, 2006 Share Posted April 3, 2006 Hey Kevin. So how does this work? I calculated my car using the online calculator for the TIme Trial and it said mine was TTA. How will these translate to our class. My car was at the top of TTA as far as points go. Therefore, a car with much more mods will go into the unlimited class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexaST-1 Posted April 3, 2006 Author Share Posted April 3, 2006 That is what I am working on. TTA GPC-2 TTU and GPC-1 (One being the higher Level.) I haven't finished my car yet, but it will be extreme according to this. I will post when I finish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexaST-1 Posted April 3, 2006 Author Share Posted April 3, 2006 We have a severe problem. My car is T1 suspension with very little interior, good motor and stock body, driveline and brakes. These points easily put my car into +3 class upgrade. At least I have a starting point. Since I consider T1 as the starting point for GPC some changes will have to be made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ledfoot2 Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 That is what I was thinking. The same goes for PT right now. My car is also at the top of the second class and cars like yours and Brady's will just get dumped into the unlimited class. I know that is what we are trying to avoid, but what is NASA's thoughts on the subject? I know this is rehashing old topics, but if that is what is going to happen, we might just be better off with VVC classifications for everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrankBarba Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 Texas....Looking at the rules for TT i am placed in TTR, unless i'm reading it different.....Anyone looking for a Comp Coupe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexaST-1 Posted April 4, 2006 Author Share Posted April 4, 2006 I would move several of the cars out of TTR. That is where my car is right now. As I said before, which is nothing more than a T1 car with a strong motor. I will now start working on a points system that works for "Our" cars. My plan was to always have T1 preparation as the "Base" level for GPC. Frank, your car will be in GPC-1 with mine, but your oportunity for upgrades are severly limited since your car is well prepared from Dodge. Just like a Porsche Cup Cars are almost maxed out from the start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
National Staff Greg G. Posted April 4, 2006 National Staff Share Posted April 4, 2006 That is what I am working on. TTA GPC-2 TTU and GPC-1 (One being the higher Level.) I haven't finished my car yet, but it will be extreme according to this. I will post when I finish. Ledfoot2--like I posted previously a few weeks to a month ago--If your car classes out to PTA (TTA), then that is the class you CAN run in. However, you MAY choose to run in whatever class above PTA that you desire (i.e. GPC-2, GPC-1, or SU). A car that classes into PTA (TTA), whether it is a Corvette or another make/model is not going to be classed into GPC-2. GPC-2 is the next step above PTA. The rules do allow for any competitor in a lower class to run in a higher class at their discretion. So, if nothing changes regarding your car's current classing (although it could--we could decide to increase the base class of older Z06's, C6's, etc in the PT/GPC/SU structure (they won't be changing in TT this year--but could next year)), then you can decide whether to run in PTA or GPC-2. Our real challenge is to classify the cars in GPC-2 and GPC-1 between SU and PTA, using only two classes, and making things fair. There are just not enough cars in NASA (currently or expected in the "near" future) to put three classes in there. PTA is already defined by the PT rules/system, and some of the current GPC cars do fit into PTA if they are almost stock. SU is clearly going to be for the following cars: Tube frame purpose built high hp or low wt/hp ratio racecars like the GT1, Trans-AM, all prototypes and most Sports Racers/Radicals, NASCAR, ASC, Pro Truck. Then, there are the other questionables like the Porsche GT3 Cup cars (Leh Keen just knocked out a 1:25.xx at Road Atlanta in one--while the best GT1 result there last month was a 1:24.xx. I believe that the T1 record is about a 1:37.xx (GPC-2 level)--and our current TTR cars were running 1:33.xx--The Star Mazda record is 1:18.6, and often sports racers run in the low to mid- 1:20's, while the World Challenge GT guys ran 1:17+ in qualifying unless my data is incorrect--wow!). So, there is a big jump present in there. Obviously, there is driver variability as well. Our TTA Corvettes ran 1:39-1:40 in March. So, we will be working on this for the next few weeks to figure out the best possible classing structure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexaST-1 Posted April 4, 2006 Author Share Posted April 4, 2006 Good Times! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaymz Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 There is an issue with the classing as you have it now. The few cars that ran in VVC last year were all VVCx class cars. (Except for Frank in VVC2 but should be in x per the rulebook) The cars were: James Forbis - Vette - VVCx Rudy Orawick - Vette - VVCx Dale Clark - Vette - VVCx Frank Barba - Viper Comp Coupe - VVC2 Name Unknown - Viper GTS - VVCx There is one more being built that I know of that will also be in VVCx All of these cars will be listed in SU. None of them will be able to run with a radical or spec racer. A couple of the names above have raced the 90% of the races in a season. Why "punish" the guys that have supported NASA for the last couple years? Now there are a couple more Vettes down south that are a mod or two away from being in SU. Why not keep the Vettes and Vipers away from the radicals and such and give the "door slammers" a place to race each other. As I have stated in many previous posts. VVC or whatever it will be called needs two classes. One that is a spec class and another that is unlimited. It works great for AI/AIX. I am sure that it will work great for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexaST-1 Posted April 4, 2006 Author Share Posted April 4, 2006 Jay, thanks for making my point. I still feel like, from both my personal experiece and your post. We have a need for 3 Classes. GPC-2 T1 and budget concious GPC-1 T1 plus Aftermarket GPC-X WCGT and GPC Cars on slicks and exceed the limits of GPC-1. I know down here we have 2-3 cars for X already and you have 4+. None of the cars need to be in SU. As Greg said SU is for TA and GT1 and such. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BradyMorehead Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 I agree with Kevin. We have enough drivers who want to start this class without any real publicity. Just think how good it could be if NASA would get behind it. We're already setup here in Texas! No need to muddy the waters by trying to squeeze us somewhere into PT, we are ligitimate on our own without trying to "find" a home for us. Brady Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ledfoot2 Posted April 5, 2006 Share Posted April 5, 2006 Here here! The formula is working here in Texas and the class is growing. Lets not try to make one class fit every car out there. If that is the case, I know of several 700+ hp, 2400lb GT-1 cars that will fit nicely in the unlimited class and we can just all run there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaymz Posted April 5, 2006 Share Posted April 5, 2006 The issue is most of the guys here will be running the unlimited class or they are just one mod away from it. I guess time will tell how this all works out in September. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
National Staff Greg G. Posted April 5, 2006 National Staff Share Posted April 5, 2006 Jaymz and everyone else. First, TTR is a combination of what will likely be GPC1 and SU. So, just because you classed into TTR doesn't mean that you will be in SU. Kevin asked you to check just as a hypothetical, not to start an "SU panic". I'd like to ask everyone to chill out a bit on this, and please give us the time we need to come up with the best possible plan. It won't take until September, Jaymz. I'm hoping that it will only take a few weeks. I can guarantee everyone a few things: 1) We will do our best to fairly class as many cars as possible with the constraints that we have been given, and the limited number of participants that we expect at the '06 Championships in the cars that fit into these classes. 2) We understand the difference between a production car and a Sports Racer. 3) By including other cars that are in the PT structure but get bumped out of PTA because of too many mod points, you will have more competition. 4) Not everyone will be happy with every decision that is made, whether it be regarding non-DOT slicks, or base classing, or minimum wt/hp ratio. It is impossible to please 100% of participants when developing racing rules. But, we will try to make decisions that will satisfy the highest number of potential participants to help grow the series. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrankBarba Posted April 5, 2006 Share Posted April 5, 2006 I know of several 700+ hp, 2400lb GT-1 cars that will fit nicely in the unlimited class and we can just all run there. This why i can't run in SCCA or possibly NASA. I've even put my car up for sale because of the stigma that comes with owning a viper. Placing me in a GT-1 Class in SCCA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexaST-1 Posted April 5, 2006 Author Share Posted April 5, 2006 Incase I didn't mention it, Greg and I are rewritting the GPC rules to fit NASA as a national class. Greg's goal is to help our new class avoid some of the pitfalls they have encountered with other HP/Wt basede classes (ie:AI.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexaST-1 Posted April 12, 2006 Author Share Posted April 12, 2006 I have been working on a new points system that start with the basic assumption that your car has the basic improvements of a T1 prepared race car. Some cars will get a double astrik to move them up from a base GPC-2 class to GPC-1. Like a Ferrari 360 would be a GPC-2 car but a 360 Challenge car will be bumped from 2 to 1 with out any points upgrades and then go up from there. I am waiting to hear from Greg to get a final plan together since he has better working knoweldge or rule writting than I do. We need to keep everyone honest! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Tornado Posted April 16, 2006 Share Posted April 16, 2006 Will be curious how you all end out with this. Several of us vette's in TT this year might do this next year if there is enough folks running. So where would a T1 prep'd car with headers and a cam (ie more power) run then?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
National Staff Greg G. Posted April 16, 2006 National Staff Share Posted April 16, 2006 None of this is decided yet, Chris. It's all still a work in progress. (and we both know that your wife isn't going to let you race next year ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ledfoot2 Posted April 16, 2006 Share Posted April 16, 2006 Will be curious how you all end out with this. Several of us vette's in TT this year might do this next year if there is enough folks running. So where would a T1 prep'd car with headers and a cam (ie more power) run then?? That is about how my car is setup. I currently run in GPC-2. I believe the classes are going to switch, so I will be in GPC-1 then?!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Tornado Posted April 16, 2006 Share Posted April 16, 2006 As long as it is power to weight ratio based as that was great in American Iron. Sure some other basic issues but that made it as close to a even class as possible. I really don't want to run with SCCA in T1 but would love to stay in NASA and not have to get rid of the vette. I debated about going back in to AI next year but if I can just add a cage and some basic's to the vette and run then I am all for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z06RACER Posted April 17, 2006 Share Posted April 17, 2006 Kevin... I plan on going to the Nationals. I already booked the hotel ( a good idea for anyone considering going!!) I want to sign up for the event, but not sure what class to sign up for. Will the new classes be run at MO? or will it be VVC?? When will we know?? I can always sign up for SU, but any CSR car that shows up will blow that class away. Any other VVC RACERS going to MO??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaymz Posted April 17, 2006 Share Posted April 17, 2006 Bob, I will be there in VVCx or whatever it's called. Just sign up for that class and we will be moved to the new class when it's ready. I already mentioned the sports racer bit to Greg and he said that we wont have to worry about that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z06RACER Posted April 17, 2006 Share Posted April 17, 2006 OKAY......I signed up for VVCx. As of now I am the only VVC car signed up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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