schwank Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 Alrighty all, it's been a few weeks since my last post, but the '44 is coming along. Still have a few more items to do before she's track ready, including the windshield and new radiator install... but those should be addressed here shortly, so I have been thinking about my next job: seating. Currently I have stock seats and 3 point belts. I am looking at Corbeau FX1 Pro seats (I'm a skinny boy!), and have a couple questions regarding mounting brackets. I also have questions regarding harness use in a non caged car. I know the Sparco Evo's may be a bit better, but I can get two Corbeau's for the price of one Sparco. I have plenty of other uses for that 'extra' 500 bucks beyond seats. First of all, knowing this seat is not FIA homologated, I understand I'll need a brace for real racing. However the car does not have a cage yet and won't until at least this winter. Therefore this summer I plan on running DE's only. So my options for mounting brackets are bottom mount using factory holes, or side mount, which sits a tad lower but will require custom fabrication of a bottom plate. I am 6'0" and don't think for sure that I need the extra height currently, so I am leaning toward the bottom mounts as they allow factory mounting and the use of sliders (double locking). Are these significantly less safe than the side mounts? Secondly, given that I'm going to better seats I also want to upgrade to a 5pt harness. Now as I don't have a cage, I don't currently have a mounting point for the harness... I assume the best short term fix is a Weltmeister harness bar? That would allow me to run the 5pt harnesses until the winter. I know it is definitely no where near as safe as the cage, but it seems it would still be a much better solution for this summer's HPDE's than stock belts. So anyway, can I get a bit of feedback here? What is the 'best', most affordable non-race setup to run, in the SHORT TERM, for DE safety. I don't really have much in the way of local shops to check this stuff out, so I need to make sure I have my ducks in a row before ordering many hundreds of dollars of stuff over the 'net. Thanks! -Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
944-Spec#94 Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 Well you are not going to like what I have to say, but do it all. Buy the seats that you will be using long term. Don't buy a seat only to know you will not be able to use it later. With respect to harness & belt routing. My advice is to get the cage put in place now. You will need it so do it. The money you spend on anything else is a waste. The only exception is a Redline roll bar. They work nice as really beefy harness bars and probably have a strong used sale value. The welt harness bars are ok, but not really all that good. Alot has to do with the length of the shoulder straps. Now seat mounting. I use a sparco pro2000 and the factory side mounts. I drilled out the floor mouning points and used larger bolts to bolt through the floor. I used 2.5" square plates under those bolts. Now on side mount vs bottom mount. Side mounts allow you rise/lower or change the front to back angle of the seat by using the holes on the side. Plus I think it is a stronger mounting system for seat that puts the holes in seat in shear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schwank Posted April 4, 2006 Author Share Posted April 4, 2006 Yeah, that's a safe bet to say that wasn't the answer I was looking for. I definitely appreciate your opinion though, as it is born of experience, and that's ultimately what I am looking for. I definitely concur that a custom cage is better if only for the increased space for the drive to move. Also lots of discussion has been made over whether horizontal door bars are alone sufficient to reasonably prevent cabin intrusion (IMHO they are not). For competition purposes I personally would not be satisfied with a bolt in... my safety is certainly worth the extra time and money. That said, the simple fact is that a custom cage takes a LOT of time and money to develop and install. So much so that I believe I would lose most of my track season if I had to strip the car for cage prep, leave it somewhere (as yet undetermined) for cage build and install, and then attempt to reassemble the car. That's a lot of seat time to be lost, when I can't even race locally yet. To go to Sparco Evo's and a full cage I'm looking at bare minimum 3 grand, and more likely 4K by the time it's done. I figure with 5 pointers, a harness bar, and sthe Fx1 Pro's won't set me back any more than a grand. Big difference. The only possible series I'm eligible for here is SCCA IT, and there's no way I can be competitive, especially this early in my career. Given this fact, it seems foolish for me to miss so much seat time this season. As for the seats, I wasn't really planning on upgrading again later, was just going to stay with the Corbeau's and add the supports when made necessary by a roll cage. Does this make sense? I'm trying to get my car track ready for seat time now, since there is simply no class that has a home for me in my geographic area. Now if spec 944 migrated north a bit, we'd have a different story altogether. In the meantime I am looking for a workable solution that would allow me a measure of safety while not causing me to lose valuable opportunities to gain experience. Perhaps I am barking up the wrong tree... maybe my 944 needs to stay street, and just be DE prepped. Sure would be cheaper! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidH Posted April 5, 2006 Share Posted April 5, 2006 I did a two stage process because of time & budget. I too wanted seat time, so I ran the 944 with a used 4 point rollbar that I could mount the harnesses to. Also, I found some used Sparce Pro 2000's. This really helped with the budget. When it was time to convert it to a SPEC car, I sold the rollbar for what I paid and still use the seats. I also did much of the suspension as well. Stage two was last year and we pulled the interior & put in the cage. It is still an ongoing project, but amortizing the cost over a few years helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schwank Posted May 13, 2006 Author Share Posted May 13, 2006 (edited) Reply to my own post to ask another question... Does seat hardware need to be stainless steel? I can find M8 pan heads easy enough locally, but not in SS. Just about all my parts are here, so I putting everything back together. Thanks again. Edited May 14, 2006 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
944-Spec#94 Posted May 14, 2006 Share Posted May 14, 2006 Reply to my own post to ask another question... Does seat harware need to be stainless steel? I can find M8 pan heads easy enough locally, but not in SS. Just about all my parts are here, so I putting everything back together. Thanks again. Nope. Just grade 5 or higher. Standard Grade 5 bolts have 3 lines on them, Metric show 8.8 on them. Grade 8 have 5 lines and metric grade 8 have 10.9. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schwank Posted October 2, 2006 Author Share Posted October 2, 2006 Just digging up my old post... finally have the full interior out and need to figure out the mounting of my Sparco seats. If all goes well I hope to put in a couple DE days the first weekend of November, so time is ticking... I have the sparco steel side mounts, and the holes on the bottom of the plate do not line up with the factory seat mounting holes. Now I guess I could drill through the floor and make my own mounting points as Joe said, but has anyone done this some other way then altering the floorboards with a welder ? (don't have one personally, and the car is not mobile yet) Can it be done reliably? Obviously I want to keep some ability to shift the seats forward or back using the mounting brackets. No sliders or anything goofy here, just want to have them bolted directly down. Still no cage, that is a winter project, but I want to put some track time on her this year... kind of reignite my motivation. It's hard staring at a car in pieces all summer, especially when that car is a porsche and you've put a cumulative total of 50 miles on it in the 6 months you've owned it. Thanks again guys... stay safe! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schwank Posted October 3, 2006 Author Share Posted October 3, 2006 *crickets chirping* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeanutinCA Posted October 4, 2006 Share Posted October 4, 2006 In my 993 I slotted my seat rails to make it fit the cars seat holes. I can't recall what I did in the new car? Will have to take a look. P.D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck T. Posted October 4, 2006 Share Posted October 4, 2006 home depot has grade 5 and higher stuff. Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
944-Spec#94 Posted October 4, 2006 Share Posted October 4, 2006 If you want to move the seat foward/back I suggest sliders. It is the easiest way. Get the proper sparco race seat sliders. If you don't need to move the seat just drill through the floor and mount it with large backing plates. I have pictures on my camera for this, but my camera is home and I am not right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schwank Posted October 4, 2006 Author Share Posted October 4, 2006 I'm not looking to have the seats be movable from in the cabin. I'm the only driver so I'm not really concerned about mine so much as the passenger. Instructors have to sit somewhere, and a lot of them are bigger guys than me. I don't trust the sliders I've seen in the event of a crash so I just want to directly bolt up. Even when drilling through the floor I can reposition the seat by removing the bolts and repositioning the entire seat/bracket assembly - the entire bottom edge of the bracket is perforated for bolts so it could just be adjusted fwd/back that way. Bolts I'm not worried about, long since found a good local supplier for those... just trying to figure out the safest easiest way... hate to mess with the floor but maybe I'll have to. Perhaps I'll just run stock seats and 3 point belts for my November DE, and then weld up some backing plates when I do the cage and harness mount points this winter. Edit: Actually just bought a pair of the FIA sparco sliders... for 100 bucks, it will just be easier in the short term, until I can get around to the welding stuff. And I'm sure they will resale just fine if necessary. Thanks guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
944-Spec#94 Posted October 4, 2006 Share Posted October 4, 2006 My pass seat is mounted very far back. I'd bet a 7 footer could fit in there. It is also fixed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
944-Spec#94 Posted October 12, 2006 Share Posted October 12, 2006 I finally have a picture. Here is my seat mount. I use standard sparco side mounts with bolts going through the floor backed up with these plates. The 4 gray plates at the corner are the seat mounts. The two goldish plates are from the Schoth sub belt mounting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck T. Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 side note... in a crash the seat does not hold you in the car the seat belts do. there are some issues with backlash but the seat back brace takes care of that. so seat mounting is important for driving (sturdy) not as big a problem in a crash. disclaimer. I'm not a race car safety pro. chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
944-Spec#94 Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 in a rear impact with a FG seat you really want the seat mounts strong to take most of the load. This would put load on the forward mounts in an "up" direction. Side impacts can also put a load into the seat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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