Tim Comeau Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 Which one are you? With it's equal weight, equal cars formula, 944 spec is the best 944 racing class that answers that question definitively. In 944 spec, you might be outdriven, but you'll never be outspent! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spazegun2213 Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 In 944 spec, you might be outdriven, but you'll never be outspent! truer words have never been spoken. I would have to say I'm a little of both. I bought a car that was almost street legal with a cage in it. but now, I'm putting it on a diet and adding to it. I'm trying to keep the car under 10K which i think is resonable for a race car here is the build up The 944 Story Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeanutinCA Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 "You can either BE fast, or BUY fast." Some people are both Timmay? Lets not completely fool people. I see from some peoples posts that budget is a big deal. But, to run up front, you need to spend money and/or time to be there. Of course talent can run you up front, like yourself (Timmay). But, for some who did not run up front, spending money put them there. What would happen if you had the same budget for you Tim? You would be well out front. So, if you have talent AND money, that's going to be a tough combination to beat. And, it does currently exist in the class. But at least with the numbers, there is plenty of speeds to run with depending where you, your talent and your budget end up. But to say you wont be outspent, sorry bud, that's a complete understatement. With cars surpassing $25K and even $35K, you can very well be outspent! Hell, I'm sure over the 3 years my car is approaching $20K? That's more than some peoples budgets out there. And I'm not the top of the spending tree by any means. It is what it is, racing is not cheap. And no matter how budget the class is, there will always be people willing to spend. The only saving grace in this class is that sometimes talent can help you run with big budget. Then of course there is Eric who just outspends us all!!! P.D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
944-Spec#94 Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 Well you can very well be out spent. However once you reach 95% of prep these cars pretty much stall in speed. What I mean is that you do the following. 1) Get car to weight 2) put on the basic complete suspension package 3) align/corner balance the car proper 4) simple rebuild to ensure a "solid" motor (good a/f ratios) 5) Run tires in the normal life (ie NOT using 5 year old cycled out left overs) 6) Keep up with maintence 7) Short 5th gear Doing the above items will get you to 95% of prep. Done yourself it will cost about 7-8k to get to this level. Then maybe 300-400 per track day (including entry fees) to keep you there. That is actually pretty cheap for any road racing car. So while one can spend 25k on car build-up and prep that does not mean that an 8k homebuilt special can't compete. Once you get past 10k in prep costs you don't really get much faster. Prettier maybe, but not really faster. From a car prep standpoint the ONLY thing my car lacks is a limited slip diff. I have a very tight budget and I know if I throw another 10k at the car it won't make it any faster. So yes I can be outspent and will be, but lack of money only translates in to less track time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spec-944#70 Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 Nice PD! If by outspending meaning, guys have rebuilt their motors after blowing them up and while their at it sourcing out an 88 donor motor (like you and Tim have) then yes guys are spending money. Why not. Since having a shop rebuild your motor is about $4500 then why not get an 88 motor for 500-1000 and have them rebuild that. These are 20+ year old cars and a engine just will not last long if it's not rebuilt. We take cars with 100k plus mileage and start running them constantly to redline? (boom) And then adding a LSD? Of course since listening to everyone (including your self) about the pro's of LSD! So yes I freshened up my OLD tranny while putting a $1800 LSD in. It makes sense in the long run. So yes you can run and be competitive with a $10k car but eventually you will have to open up the pocket book. Motor let go, clutch let go. How much time would you have saved if you just did it right the first time instead of saving a few $$. And Joe is right that the cars won't be any faster because of it. But they should be able to run a few weekends without any problems too!! If I were to give advice I'd say build a car and race but start saving your money for the time when you'll need it. Here is also a link to costs and this DOES NOT include a rebuild but a freshing up!! http://spec-944.com/Spec944RaceCarBuild.htm. So for those who choose to have a pro do it then your looking at $12k and if you start with a $1500 POS then you may as well rebuild because it just won't last anyway. So to keep up with Tim and Dylan I did have to spend some money but that IS NOT where I made up my time. Jim Mark's took the time to help me drive better. So now I have a competitive car and hopefully with a bit more seat time a driver who can put some presure on the front runners!! To the newbies out there you'll have plenty of racers to play with as we have laos times running within 10 seconds at some races. Get seat time, instruction and when your car needs attention do it RIGHT!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
944-Spec#94 Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 Eric, Just to prove the point post a dyno chart of your rebuilt motor. My guess is hp is not much different than all the rest, but at least you know it is working properly and should last! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeanutinCA Posted June 9, 2006 Share Posted June 9, 2006 Nice PD! If by outspending meaning, guys have rebuilt their motors after blowing them up and while their at it sourcing out an 88 donor motor (like you and Tim have) then yes guys are spending money. Why not. Since having a shop rebuild your motor is about $4500 then why not get an 88 motor for 500-1000 and have them rebuild that. Oh man Eric, sometimes you just don't get the joke do you. I'm kidding dude, when would I say something like that about you? Anyways. It's not about pointing fingers at specific people for spending money, there's no rule against it. I just don't think it's an accurate statement to say you wont be outspent. For many budget drivers, you will very much be outspent, you MAY not be outdriven though? I think the more true statement would be that you can be outspent, but that doesn't mean you will be outdriven. AND, even if you ARE outspent, you may still win anyway. Now that's the actual beauty of the class. You can win with a slightly lesser car. So, relax peoples. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spec-944#70 Posted June 9, 2006 Share Posted June 9, 2006 I'll be dynoing soon. We ran into a minor issue today and had to replace a thermostadt I fried. I tell you better keep an eye on your gauges as "red mist caused me to NOT notice the temp rising as I cut my rad hose. I ended up blowing a head gasket and warped my head! Good thing I left wiggle room for shaving!! I plan to have an idiot light installed next week so it won't happen again. And PD I understand you were joking but nothing ANY of us has done was to purposly look for HP as there is none to be found. We just made sure everything was 100%. I've seen an old tired motor put out 107HP and after a rebuild put out 128. No shaving, no headers, no chip. I just want to get seat time!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Comeau Posted June 9, 2006 Author Share Posted June 9, 2006 Dilly, Good points, but I disagree. What I mean by "you can't be outspent " is that there is a finite set of equipment you can buy. You can gold plate your engine, but it's still the same engine. You can have a pro shop build your car for $25-$27K, like Marguglio did, but there's no advantage there, just time saved. You can't go out and buy bigger tires, then brakes, then wheels, then carbon fiber skivvies and titanium gonads....... The cost of a basic, competitive car has a ceiling. If you have to repair your car, that can't be figured into the cost of the car. You can freshen your clutch every race? Not needed and that can't be figured into the cost either. See what I mean? LSD? In the near future , you MAY need that to be competitive? I'll give you that point. The only time I've felt at a spending disadvantage was in March of this year, when I couldn't afford a fresh set of unshaved TOYO's for the rainy conditions. There were many times when I had no control of the car. Period! Just had to wait for it to come back down off the hydroplane flight......one time I was off the ground for so long they started serving drinks! So you can throw money at the car after you're finished building it, but I don't think that should be figured into the cost of the car. When someone says, "I've spent $20-$30 on this car in the last 2 years", that's not what the car cost, it's what that owner spent. Agreed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
944-Spec#94 Posted June 9, 2006 Share Posted June 9, 2006 Dilly, ... The only time I've felt at a spending disadvantage was in March of this year, when I couldn't afford a fresh set of unshaved TOYO's for the rainy conditions. ... Even then tire are a "consumable" some folks were at the end of their cycle and needed tires anyway. Personally I did not need tires, but conditions told me buy them now and use them later. So I floated a little cash now have those tires in black sealed bags waiting for my next set to wear down before I use them again. Even with that I have earned 225 Toyo bucks since march so... my next set will be just about 1/2 price. Good thing is we don't need "special" rain tires. Just the same ones we run in dry, but unshaved. So buying "rain tires" is never really thowing money away as you will use them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Comeau Posted June 10, 2006 Author Share Posted June 10, 2006 Good point, Joe.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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