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simoniac

Rally Spec Focus Q & A

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simoniac

Q: How does one register or enroll in the program?

 

Q: Where does one obtain the required sponsor decals?

 

Thanks.

 

Simon

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John K Shirley
Q: How does one register or enroll in the program?

 

Q: Where does one obtain the required sponsor decals?

 

Thanks.

 

Simon

 

Simon,

 

I will post all the registration details and decal info ASAP.

 

JKS

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Knestis

I can't find the M-2300-ZX3 "R" brake kit in the Ford Motorsport catalog. What's the general spec on this? It seems like the most irritating glitch that's likely to stand in the way of running a RSF in the SF road races.

 

Since they have to fit in the 15" wheels, I'm assuming that they are smaller than the OE parts - right?

 

K

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simoniac

I think the M-2300-ZX3R kit is newly assembled precisely because of the 15" wheels. Which also makes it unsuitable for for SF. Think of it as a parallel series not an overlapping one.

 

Here's a thought: if the front brakes are now smaller than OEM and the rear brakes get upgraded from drums to discs, will that change the front/back braking bias? If so, will it be a good change? Why?

 

Simon

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Anders Green
if the front brakes are now smaller than OEM and the rear brakes get upgraded from drums to discs, will that change the front/back braking bias? If so, will it be a good change? Why?

I would say:

1) Yes, it would have to change. The amount of change is difficult to say without more info on the surface areas of the pads.

2 and 3)I would _guess_ it would be good. Generally, a stock setup is overly (for our purposes) front biased. By reducing the fronts, that shifts the bias to the rear. The overall 'loss' of braking power will be made up for by better pads.

 

The other good part: you can fit your wheels on.

 

Anders

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John K Shirley
I can't find the M-2300-ZX3 "R" brake kit in the Ford Motorsport catalog. What's the general spec on this? It seems like the most irritating glitch that's likely to stand in the way of running a RSF in the SF road races.

 

Since they have to fit in the 15" wheels, I'm assuming that they are smaller than the OE parts - right?

 

K

 

The kit has only been given a part number in the last 30 days. Its basically a smaller OE rotor and OE caliper mountings. the rest of the kit is rear SVT brakes plus cables and mountings. This was the only way we could get the cleanances for a 15" wheel to work. It the main difference between the rally road race program.

 

JKS

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Knestis
...the M-2300-ZX3R kit is newly assembled precisely because of the 15" wheels. Which also makes it unsuitable for for SF. Think of it as a parallel series not an overlapping one. ...

 

But the whole point, to my mind, is to make it an overlapping one. There is no real downside to a common (if compromised) set of rules and all kinds of benefits in the marketplace.

 

If the rally-spec kit has smaller rotors, it shouldn't scare the road race rulesmakers because it will be a relative disadvantage. Seems like there's some room for acceptance there.

 

Sure - it would be extra good if the tarmac rally and road-racer versions ran on the same tires but whoop-de-doo. Tires are consummable anyway. And there's never been any question that the suspension kits would have to be completely unique. In all, I'm VERY impressed with the first cut at this.

 

Kirk (who's off to talk with Ford dealers)

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Andrew_Frick

Will cars have to meet the full spec before being allowed to compete or can start with a near stock car and race it while building into the spec?

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Anders Green
Will cars have to meet the full spec before being allowed to compete

Well, the car would be legal for M2, so it could certainly enter the rally. I'm guessing that the more precise question might be something like: "If I had a Rally Focus that had everything (including stickers) except for the specified suspension, where it was running completely stock parts instead of the DMS, would I be allowed to compete in the Cup for points and prize money?"

 

(I don't know the answer. John?)

 

Cheers,

Anders

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starion887
I think the M-2300-ZX3R kit is newly assembled precisely because of the 15" wheels. Which also makes it unsuitable for for SF. Think of it as a parallel series not an overlapping one.

 

Here's a thought: if the front brakes are now smaller than OEM and the rear brakes get upgraded from drums to discs, will that change the front/back braking bias? If so, will it be a good change? Why?

 

Simon

 

Good point Simon. I'm no expert but.....

 

The front brake change may or may not change front brake friction force by much, with the starting assumption that the pad COF and pedal pressure stayed equal. It depends on the piston size used. (If a smaller pad area it used, will result in higher pad pressure and will approximately yield the same brake friction force on the disc). If the piston size/area stays constant, with the same friction force applied on a smaller diameter disc, the brake force on the wheels will be smaller. So brake pedal pressure will probably increase to compensate to some degree.

 

Front heat capacity will probably be a lot lower; I think that is safe to say. But even this is mitigated by being on gravel with less braking traction. I would surely be planning to use the heat duct setup on tarmac.

 

The brake effect change on the rear wheels will depend on very many things, like drum vs disc diameters, pad versus shoe COF's; etc. The probable increased brake pressure in the whole system is also a factor.

 

Throw in the proportioning valve and who can predict without calculating from the exact mechanical specifics of the system. So we can only hope that someone calculated this to work out OK. I expect one will need to experiment with pad COF's to get the balance optimized.

 

Regards,

Mark B.

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Anders Green
I expect one will need to experiment with pad COF's to get the balance optimized.

What???!!?? Are you trying to tell me the internet doesn't know the answer???!!!??? Mark, you are a jerk!! The internet knows everything!!11!!

 

 

*smirk*

 

Anders

Edited by Guest

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starion887

 

If the rally-spec kit has smaller rotors, it shouldn't scare the road race rulesmakers because it will be a relative disadvantage. Seems like there's some room for acceptance there.

 

Kirk (who's off to talk with Ford dealers)

 

But it should sacre you as a road racer to have to use such a much smaller brake kit, from a safety standpoint. The heat capacity will be much lower; with the avialable braking traction being so much lower in gravel, the 15" brakes may weel be fine. But they would probably be very quickly thermally overwhlmed on a good road race circuit with the much higher braking traction. Not a very safe thing.

 

I would consider getting both brake packages as tarmac rallying would probably be too much for the 15" kit.

 

Regards,

Mark B.

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starion887
I expect one will need to experiment with pad COF's to get the balance optimized.

What???!!?? Are you trying to tell me the internet doesn't know the answer???!!!??? Mark, you are a jerk!! The internet knows everything!!11!!

 

 

*smirk*

 

Anders

 

Oh I'm so sorry....(putting on my best Eeyore act......)....I forgot.....I am sooo stoopid.....

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Knestis
But it should sacre you as a road racer to have to use such a much smaller brake kit, from a safety standpoint.

 

Hey, there - let's not get insulting. Calling me a "road racer." Sheesh.

 

I would consider getting both brake packages as tarmac rallying would probably be too much for the 15" kit.

 

I guess that I presumed that the same brake kit was required regardless of surface. I don't have the rules in front of me now but I don't remember that being an "allowed" change. I thought it was mandatory.

 

K

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John K Shirley
But it should sacre you as a road racer to have to use such a much smaller brake kit, from a safety standpoint.

 

Hey, there - let's not get insulting. Calling me a "road racer." Sheesh.

 

I would consider getting both brake packages as tarmac rallying would probably be too much for the 15" kit.

 

I guess that I presumed that the same brake kit was required regardless of surface. I don't have the rules in front of me now but I don't remember that being an "allowed" change. I thought it was mandatory.

 

K

 

No changes to the brake system.

Remeber on a tarmac stage the given time running is much lower then a circuit race. Consideration has been given about a future tarmac setup but we need to keep cost low at this point.

JKS

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starion887

 

No changes to the brake system.

Remeber on a tarmac stage the given time running is much lower then a circuit race. Consideration has been given about a future tarmac setup but we need to keep cost low at this point.

JKS

 

Most folks can get the brakes smoking in a <5 miles of hard brake work, 'specially with 170 HP and LFB. But the brake ducts should help a lot. And you know I will agree with low cost!

 

Let me ask one question and get it out of the way: The rules say you can't remove the handbrake and associated parts so we leave the whole stock handbrake and actuator system in place right? I see no prohibition to adding a hydraulic handbrake inline with the rear brake system's hydraulic, and have not noticed a 'you can't change xyz unless we tell you that you can' type of phrase in the rules. So, is it correct to think that hydraulic handbrakes for the rear are not prohibited?

 

Regards,

Mark B

 

PS: Still waiting on that FAX'd info; it's been 2+ weeks dude....give me that and I won't bug you 'til after Rally TN.....

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FocusTed

Great Job John!!! It looks great. Very simular to the SF Series.

 

Also to let you know the M-2300-ZX3R brake kits is allowed in the Spec Focus (SF) series already. They come with the 2005 ZX4 ST, which is already in use in Leo Capaldi's Spec Focus without any problems. SVT brake works very well with these lightweight cars (may too well).

 

The question I have... how hard will it be to change the DMS suspension to an OEM (multimatic) suspension we use in the Spec Series??

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John K Shirley

 

No changes to the brake system.

Remeber on a tarmac stage the given time running is much lower then a circuit race. Consideration has been given about a future tarmac setup but we need to keep cost low at this point.

JKS

 

Most folks can get the brakes smoking in a <5 miles of hard brake work, 'specially with 170 HP and LFB. But the brake ducts should help a lot. And you know I will agree with low cost!

 

Let me ask one question and get it out of the way: The rules say you can't remove the handbrake and associated parts so we leave the whole stock handbrake and actuator system in place right? I see no prohibition to adding a hydraulic handbrake inline with the rear brake system's hydraulic, and have not noticed a 'you can't change xyz unless we tell you that you can' type of phrase in the rules. So, is it correct to think that hydraulic handbrakes for the rear are not prohibited?

 

Regards,

Mark B

 

PS: Still waiting on that FAX'd info; it's been 2+ weeks dude....give me that and I won't bug you 'til after Rally TN.....

 

No brake changes outside of whats in the regs! The handbrake can be removed under the road race regs so I needed to make that distinction.

 

JKS

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Knestis
...the M-2300-ZX3R brake kits is allowed in the Spec Focus (SF) series already. They come with the 2005 ZX4 ST, which is already in use in Leo Capaldi's Spec Focus without any problems. ...

 

That's really great news, Ted.

 

There's going to be some questions to work out still, looks like but this is off to an excellent start. John's probably going to get a lot of mileage out of our age-old Improved Touring mantra - "If it doesn't say you can, you can't" (IIDSYCYC).

 

K

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starion887
Great Job John!!! It looks great. Very simular to the SF Series.

 

Also to let you know the M-2300-ZX3R brake kits is allowed in the Spec Focus (SF) series already. They come with the 2005 ZX4 ST, which is already in use in Leo Capaldi's Spec Focus without any problems. SVT brake works very well with these lightweight cars (may too well).

 

The question I have... how hard will it be to change the DMS suspension to an OEM (multimatic) suspension we use in the Spec Series??

 

Hi Ted,

 

Is the minimum wieght the same in the SF series? 2600 lbs?

 

How does the OEM suspension fit into the car? DMS ususally is a bolt-in, onto existing points, with possibly minor mods, and with possibly external reserviors. Good question! Does the SF series allow camber/caster plates?

 

Regards,

Mark B.

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starion887

 

John's probably going to get a lot of mileage out of our age-old Improved Touring mantra - "If it doesn't say you can, you can't" (IIDSYCYC).

 

K

 

I finally found the magic phrase in section 4 of the RSF rules. How do you pronounce 'IIDSYCYC'?

 

I like the phrase in section 26.0: 'Cheating and non-compliance will not be welcome....'

 

Mark B.

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Knestis

 

... How do you pronounce 'IIDSYCYC'? ...

Best translation that doesn't require actually speaking Macedonian is, "I'd psyche, y'see?"

 

RSF has to weigh 2600 minus the crew, SF is 2600 with the driver. I like the symmetry there, and it makes some sense to allow for underguards and beefier cage structure.

 

Speaking of which, it just now occurs to me that there's no allowance for sump guards or underside protection. Is there a clause in there somewhere referring to the GRR on the subject?

 

K

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John K Shirley
Great Job John!!! It looks great. Very simular to the SF Series.

 

Also to let you know the M-2300-ZX3R brake kits is allowed in the Spec Focus (SF) series already. They come with the 2005 ZX4 ST, which is already in use in Leo Capaldi's Spec Focus without any problems. SVT brake works very well with these lightweight cars (may too well).

 

The question I have... how hard will it be to change the DMS suspension to an OEM (multimatic) suspension we use in the Spec Series??

 

Ted,

 

The DMS use the stock mounts so its easy.

 

JKS

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John K Shirley

 

... How do you pronounce 'IIDSYCYC'? ...

Best translation that doesn't require actually speaking Macedonian is, "I'd psyche, y'see?"

 

RSF has to weigh 2600 minus the crew, SF is 2600 with the driver. I like the symmetry there, and it makes some sense to allow for underguards and beefier cage structure.

 

Speaking of which, it just now occurs to me that there's no allowance for sump guards or underside protection. Is there a clause in there somewhere referring to the GRR on the subject?

 

K

 

This is already in the GRR's.

SRF Regs are a suppliment to the GRRs.

 

JKS

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simoniac

Q: Regarding item 24.7: Interior Components...

 

My interpretation of this item in a ZX3 means that we may pretty much strip everything from the interior as long as the dashboard remains largely intact (accommodations made for cage). And interior must meet GRRs for M2.

 

Is that right?

 

Does that include the door sill covers and the plastic covers over the A, B and C pillars? A and B would be in the way of a cage anyway. We're considering leaving the front door panels and grooving them to accommodate the cage. I'm just a bit puzzled that this item didn't just simply say what must remain.

 

Advice appreciated.

 

Simon

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