92 civic si H4 final drive advice.

[eqben]

Hi guys, I am currently running HCH4 with a 92 civic si socal region. Does anyone know which company out there makes a final drive for my car? I have a D16z6 engine with a factory transmission. I believe my tranny is hydro. Thanks in advance for the helps.

 

B.Tang

[Rick Hohwart]

Funny I just ordered a FD from Jeff Owen (Special Projects Motorsports) about 5 minutes ago. His number is 714-585-4233. He can get them in less than a week.

 

I used an SRR which is OK and available in 4.7 and 4.9. I think the 4.7 is great for Willow Springs but I am pretty sure the 4.9 will be better for Buttonwillow and as good or better than the 4.7 for WS. So that is why I am going with the 4.9 this time.

 

Owen no longer deals with SRR so has a new supplier. I did not catch the name but trust what he is selling. They are priced well (around $500.00). There is surely something better out there but you will pay more.

 

I can't find anyone that stocks SRR Owen so is probably your best bet.

[eqben]

Thanks a bunch Rick, I'll give him a call tomorrow.

[downingracing]

Do you know who the new supplier is? I got the last SRR from Jeff a month or Two ago. I'm not 100% sure I want to use the SRR and am considering getting another (from a 'better' vendor)...

[Rick Hohwart]

Do you know who the new supplier is? I got the last SRR from Jeff a month or Two ago. I'm not 100% sure I want to use the SRR and am considering getting another (from a 'better' vendor)...

 

I don't know who it is. But since he is selling them for the same price, the quality may not be much different.

 

What is wrong with the SRR you have?

[0x1]

I remember Kiwi saying in a post a while back that all of the FD's he's seen for the D-series (except factory Honda) have the same problem of machining across the inner race, which is what caused the failures on the SRR's. I think it's likely that whatever new ones he's carrying at that price are prone to the same type of failure. The only way to fix it was to retool and change the method of machining, which SRR was supposedly attempting, however, I never actually saw anything come of it. Perhaps he found another supplier to make that change? It may be worth asking.

 

- Scott

[MWHC Tuner]

I called kiwi in feb, to get a fd and there were some issues he is working through with srr. I went to PICperformance.com and got mine.

In fact I have an extra 4.7 if your interested. It came out after 6 races and a total of 1k test miles with out a scratch and in perfect condition.

Although P.I.C. doesn't advertise they have them, they are avilable.

My fd came out of a d16Y8 with a hydro trans, and it pretty much brand new if your interested. It has been bullet proof, unlike the srr stuff and pretty much the price is just about the same..what more could you ask for? I will sell mine for 450.00 shipped to the west coast or for pick up at the nasa nationals with out shipping...I paid 600 for mine and the testing is done for you, no charge.

The contact info for pic is via their website....

http://www.PICperformance.com

[slammed_93_hatch]

I. It has been bullet proof, unlike the srr stuff and pretty much the price is just about the same..what more could you ask for? [/url]

 

other then 2 real accounts of the SRR FD taking a crap, i can't say that i have ever seen more fail. And IIRC installation was suspect on both.

 

This is for the hydro tranny. A few people have put the hydro tranny one in the d16a6 tranny and had it fail, but it was ment for that application.

 

 

the SRR stuff is fine, i know 6 or so racers using it, for along time and no issues.

 

unlike the housemen and other really expensive FD's were it is pretty much common knowledge that they will crap out.

[MWHC Tuner]

Jimmy-

As a personal response to your post, I'm not saying ALL srr's are bad, but I wasn't willing to risk trying to get one that didn't work from srr. Jeff told me to hold off untill the design was solid with his reccomended changes to the design, and that srr wasn't willing to play ball with him anymore, despite kiwi being their largest distributor in 2005. So I'm not putting down Jeff or srr, I merely acted on solid advice from him to hold off, untill he told me that all was fine. Our mwhc season was into the 2nd round and I saw the points and felt the championship would be well out of hand if I didn't find a different supplier and fast, so I did.

I hope this sheds some facts into my previous post, because if I covered every small detail no one would read it due the length, so I made it a short post....that's all. It is just a matter of choice and I chose to go with PIC's final drive and it's been a good choice. I read posts all the time about this topic where guys want low cost, high quality, & who wouldn't ? PIC came through for me and as the Midwest Honda Challenge assistant series director and the marketing director, I operate on pure honesty to benefit all our entrants, both hpde guys looking to step up, and racers who are looking for the next upgrade. The chance to try a PIC final drive presented itself and since kiwi didn't have a fd to run at that time, I accepted the risk and their product has been solid. That is all I have to post.

[0x1]

other then 2 real accounts of the SRR FD taking a crap, i can't say that i have ever seen more fail. And IIRC installation was suspect on both.

 

This is for the hydro tranny. A few people have put the hydro tranny one in the d16a6 tranny and had it fail, but it was ment for that application.

 

One of our H4 drivers here had a 4.9 SRR FD in his Z6 tranny. It lasted 4-5 weekends before it failed and caused damage to the tranny case and LSD. He sent it back to Jeff for failure analysis, but it was lost by FedEx.

 

Another one of our guys has an SRR 4.928 in his LS hydro tranny and it has been fine for 3 weekends now (including a 2-hour enduro). I hope it holds out, but don't know if I would use one personally.

[cliftching]

Let me know if you want one. I worked with P.I.C close. I can get you one. P.M me or e mail me at [email protected]

 

D16A 4.70 or 4.90

B16A 4.79 or 4.93

H22A 4.62

 

E mail me for price.

 

Clift Ching

Edited August 28, 2006 by Guest

[KIWI]

Hi Guys,

Long time -no contact.

 

Special Projects Motor Sports has recently moved to our New big Shop in the City of Orange CA.

Some of you may have noticed... Or Not. We have been keeping a low profile in Motor Sports for a few months while building up the Business side of our Race Team. We have recently made many new overseas contacts, and parts suppliers and welcome some great new sponsors to our team.

Love us or Hate us... No one can deny that we are always ready to help our fellow Racer, and we will continue to pass on our findings to the Racers. As most of you know, We try to avoid selling "Junk" And we are constantly pushing our suppliers to make changes to increase quality or performance.

We are about to make the "Big Come Back." to racing... Possibly even in NASA?

All five of our touring cars are being re-built, using lots of our exclusive new performance and suspension equipment, as well as a K-24 repower for the #66 JDM Integra. Our #65 K-20 Integra will be re-furbished and modified and will once again be driven by Tom Lepper. An exciting new Honda Project is also in the Pipeline. Watch the magazines for some up coming articles.

 

We have some great new Sponsors and Products and will endeavour to have Stocks of the following at all the events we attend...

Flame Crusher USA, Driving Suits. TORCO Advanced Lubricants. German made- Gear-XTM. Final Drives & C/RGear sets. Geiger Cams TM. Revolutionary New 2B-COOLR flame proof cool shirts. Six Sigma Racing Headers. And many more Great suppliers.

We are still eagerly waiting for samples of the PIC Suspension components

 

Regarding Final Drives....

After possibly selling more Honda Final Drives than any other manufacturer in 2005/06. I doubt that any other company or team has done more testing or research than us, on this particular item!

 

We discontinued our association with SRR after a Trip to their facility in Taiwan earlier this year. Their interest in production of Honda parts has almost disapeared and they are more interested in Ford Focus now. We also found that our so called exclusive US Distribution was not so exclusive. After buying various ratios in lots of 30 or more for two years. We paid for the re-tooling and setup, and purchased 30 sets of the early CRX/Civic final drives only to find that they were being made available to anyone. However, the fall out of failures was coming back to us! Of course now that they are out of stock SRR is waiting for someone to order a large quantity again... We will not. And nobody else apears to be stepping up.

 

We have been trying for two years to improve on the machining faults in the Final Drives from SRR and several other manufacturers Final Drives, that we found were causing Catastrophic failures. Unfortunately they will not, or cannot change their machining processes. After trying several test samples that we felt were just band aids to the problem, we started looking in Germany and elsewhere for a remedy.

 

We have found a manufacturer who is now producing the Final Drives to our specifications, We will be releasing the new Brand - "Gear-X TM" Honda Final Drives and Close ratio Gear Kits very soon. I have some 4.9 & 4.7 D & B series in stock. We will also be releasing our own range of Honda "Geiger Cams" and lightweight Cam Gears. The Cams and Cam Gears will be available in 2 to 3 weeks.

 

We have recieved and tested samples of the 4.9 and 4.73 for the '92 and up Civic and I can tell you that the quality and value for money IN MY OPINION is better than SRR, ATS, or any of the Final Drives I have seen. However, We are quite happy to supply our customers with any other brands that we distribute, and we acnowledge that MF for instance covers a far more comprehensive range than we do and they also apear to have done thorough research and testing.

As I have said all along, We specialise in Hard Core Racing Parts For Racers and we are more inclined to push the parts we use in our own cars.

We will soon, once again be able to supply Kits to suit the CRX/Civic Cable Gear Boxes.

Most popular Honda B, D, & K Series ratios will be available. We are trying to hold the price down to $490.00 as before, which great value for money.

 

Regards,

 

Jeff (Kiwi) Owen

 

Special Projects Motor Sports

 

[email protected]

 

PS. If anyone is interested in sending me a sample B16A/ Or early Integra Cable trans Stock FD Ring Gear and Pinion Shaft. We will investigate the possibility of having 4.9 & 4.7 Ratios Manufactured.

Edited August 29, 2006 by Guest

[wm577]

If you are looking for a new FD, you can also look into this one:

 

http://shop.mfactoryhk.com/products.php?category=Final%20Drive%20Gear

 

The more options we have for parts the better

 

I have been very happy with mine and I have had zero problems with it after 10 track days / races. I'm not just sayint that because they sponcer my car, I would let it be known if anything went wrong with this FD. I have over 1,000 miles of pure track driving on it so far.

[KIWI]

The more options we have for parts the better

 

I have been very happy with mine and I have had zero problems with it after 10 track days / races. I'm not just sayint that because they sponcer my car, I would let it be known if anything went wrong with this FD. I have over 1,000 miles of pure track driving on it so far.

 

 

Quite right... Options are a good thing. We are also dealers for the MF Brand, they do make some nice stuff...

However,

Racers are generally motivated by Price, then Quality.

I believe with Gear-X, We have a nice combination of excellent race proven quality, and affordable price.

 

Kiwi

[MFactory]

After possibly selling more Honda Final Drives than any other manufacturer in 2005/06. I doubt that any other company or team has done more testing or research than us, on this particular item!

 

We have recieved and tested samples of the 4.9 and 4.73 for the '92 and up Civic and I can tell you that the quality is better than SRR, ATS, MF, or any of the Final Drives I have seen.

 

Hi Jeff,

 

would be appreciated if you could edit your post slightly, specifically the paragraphs quoted above

 

Mods/Admins: Before I continue my post, please note that this is NOT an advertising attempt by myself or our company. It is purely for information purposes only

 

SRR: Their final drives are not made from forged steel, hence the reason for the failures (other than installation errors). They were simply not designed to withstand racing conditions.

 

ATS: Made from forged Chromoly Steel and put through a shot-peening process. Stronger than SRR, but "may" fail under high load. I cannot comment, however, on their "special-order" items that they supply to race teams, only from feedback on their consumer-specific items.

 

MF: Made from Grade 1 (Pro) and Grade 2 (Street) forged Nickel-Chromoly Steel and put through our own special diamond-cutting and heat-treatment process. Our gears are oem for one of the largest japanese car manufacturers and used on their own JGTC cars. There is NO difference in the manufacturing process between our Pro-Series and what we offer this JGTC Team.

 

Jeff, as you mentioned that you visited the SRR production plant, then you should know that it is financially impossible for one company to manufacture solely inhouse a Final Drive. If they could, it would be a very bad example.

 

The manufacture of a Final Drive/Gear is not a single-stage process, but made up of several processes, each of which also adds to the quality and strength of the manufacturing process. Each of these processes requires significant investment, and is impossible for any one company to have all the available technologies inhouse.

 

If you don't mind me asking, please can you post up the specifications of your FD and what manufacturing processes it has went through (from raw material through to the final product. You should have ALL this information at hand seeing as you spent so long finding this "German" manufacturer). If you prefer not to publically post this information, and I can understand why if you don't, you can contact us anytime.

 

It would be very interesting to see the how your Gear-X FD is better quality than our FD, especially since, as far as I am aware, Special Projects Motor Sports hasn't ordered a FD from us yet? And even if you did manage to compare side-by-side our FD (or any other manufacturers) to your own, without a full mettalurgic analysis, how did you come to this conclusion?

 

Thanks,

 

Stephen - MFactory Competition Products

 

P.S Please don't take offence at this post. It is in NO WAY a stab at either yourself or your company. You are, after all, an Authorized MFactory Dealer, and we would assist you with any queries you have.

 

P.P.S In regards to the manufacturing process (where the cuts continue on to the 1st gear area of the shaft), this is an inevitable machining process due to the ratio of the Final Drive. If you ordered a longer ratio (e.g 4.05, 4.5 etc), you will not have these cuts (although the problem can be sorted by varying the offsets of the cuts, as is on the MF FD's). The only 100% solution if you don't want the cuts is to do what Honda done for their 4.785 ratio, and that is to have a different 1st Gear, distance collar and needle bearing manufactured. Unfortunately, this is only an option for the B-Series transmissions and not the D-Series.

Edited August 29, 2006 by Guest

[cliftching]

Here is a little info on PIC's Final drive.

 

PIC's final drive is manufactured differently than that of SRRs'. PIC's f/d are forgrd on both the gear and the ring while SRRs' are cut from steel. It is much more expenssive to forge. There're not many manufacturers who use forged steel for f/d. After the steel is forged into f/d's shape, it then machined through CNC milling machine and, finally, ground through CNC grinder to ensure the teeths are precise and smooth.

 

For price or to order contact Clift Ching at [email protected]

 

B 18 C 4.79/4.93 final drive

K 5.84/6.33

D15, D16 A 4.70/4.90

B 16 A 4.79/4.93

H 22 4.64

[KIWI]

Stephen - MFactory Competition Products

 

Stephen,

Duly edited, Absolutely no offence taken what so ever

 

We all have to push our products. Yes, I fully agree with your comments, and you are quite correct on the Specs of the SRR and ATS products we have experienced catastrophic failures with both. I apologise for dropping MF in there

 

I don't have our Metalurgists notes and spec's with me now, but I have no problem sharing them as soon as I can get them. Not that it would make any difference to the end user. All most of us care about is... Will it do what I want it to do? for how long? and how much does it cost? and as most know... You get what you pay for!

No, for obvious reasons we don't wish to make public the identity of our manufacturer. We have put a lot of cost into research and testing of this product and of course we want to keep the information proprietary. Otherwise we would be back where we were before.

 

I have no doubt that you will be recieving orders from us in the future, as your product range is much greater than we could possibly cover. And I have no doubt the quality is great!

My original post was merely to let people know that we will soon be able to supply all the good Hard Core Racing stuff again...

 

Regards,

 

Jeff (Kiwi) Owen

Edited August 29, 2006 by Guest

[MFactory]

Hi Jeff,

 

thanks for clearing that up, and yes, we all have to promote our own products first

 

One thing that some people should note: A lot of gear failures is due to either improper installation or improper break-in. A close second on the list is due to improper application (i.e using a 300bhp rated FD on a 800bhp vehicle)

 

9 times out of 10, if you purchase the proper FD for your application, install it properly and break it in properly, it will last you a lifetime

[eqben]

Thanks for all the advices guys. I've finally purchase a final drive from MFactory. Does anyone know reputable transmission rebuild shop in Southern California? I've had bad experience with others. Thanks in advance.

[BrianZ]

I belive GearSpeed is down there... Top notch company!