Combining 944 cup & 944 spec - Idea??

[944-Spec#94]

I decided to repost this idea and pull it out of the rules stability thread since it represents and entirely new thought and really thing it derserves its one thread. Please provide feedback just to make sure it not the moring coffee doing a number on my limited brain cells.

 

-----

I just came up with an Idea for a way to combine 944 cup and 944 spec, but still allow our different ideals to come through.

The basic problem has always been that 944 cup was based on equvalency of performance while 944 spec has been same equipment.

 

So why not do something other classes have done (like Honda Challenge, GTS, American Iron) and that is make one class with 3 sub classes.

 

Hey maybe the answer is to Offer the following.

 

Call it 944 Challenge or something (or even 944 cup)

 

Class 1 = 944 Cup 1 = 944 spec prep with strict rules control - Hey maybe spec tires, spec shocks, spec headers, no lsd, etc (or as current 944 spec rules)

Class 2 = 944 cup 2 = 944 equavalency class (Similar to 944 cup now)

Class 3 = 944 cup 3 = 944S, 944S2, 944 Turbo, 968 = similar to supercup now.

 

In this way we have 1 "class with 3 sub classes"

Hey it works for

Honda Challenge = HU, H1-H5

GTS = GTS1-GTS5, GTSu

American Iron = AI, AI/x , CMC (they infact act as subset of American Iron)

PT = PTG - PTA

 

 

Note the is an idea that I just came up with. No consult with Tim, Dave or any other 944 cup or 944 spec driver. In effect I am not presenting this as a 944 spec director as it only represnts my PERSONAL views and ideas and NOT those of 944 spec as a whole or part.

[Spec-944#70]

FYI,

Some of our frequent posters are on thier way to Laguna Seca this weekend.

[spazegun2213]

FYI,

Some of our frequent posters are on thier way to Laguna Seca this weekend.

 

then I'll chime in!

 

I think its a GREAT idea! While I'm new to the 944 racing scene, these series have never competed with one another in popularity, both are built on simple rules for even racing and both have good guys to race with!!

 

my one question, is who would run it? I know PCA has adopted both rule sets, but i also understand many of the races are done with nasa.

 

Why not allow a racer to race a spec car on the east coast, and a cup car on the west? i think this just simplifies everything if both are compressed into on "series" with many classes!

[944-Spec#94]

 

my one question, is who would run it? I know PCA has adopted both rule sets, but i also understand many of the races are done with nasa.

 

Who would run it?

Well PCA is run by PCA. POC is run by POC.

 

This "combo" would apply to NASA. Right now 944 spec is lead informaly by the regional directors. Tim, Myself, Ken, and Chuck.

 

We COULD form this combined group and maybe have the entire thing lead by Dave Derecola, but have it lead locally by each of the regional directors. So I would be the go to guy for 944 racing in NASA Az. I woud cover Spec, cup and supercup.

 

Again all of this is coming from ONLY my head so don't assume anyone else has any idea on this in and form of being offical... It IS NOT! It all comes from the mind of one caffine infected racer.

[spazegun2213]

 

my one question, is who would run it? I know PCA has adopted both rule sets, but i also understand many of the races are done with nasa.

 

Who would run it?

Well PCA is run by PCA. POC is run by POC.

 

This "combo" would apply to NASA. Right now 944 spec is lead informaly by the regional directors. Tim, Myself, Ken, and Chuck.

 

We COULD form this combined group and maybe have the entire thing lead by Dave Derecola, but have it lead locally by each of the regional directors. So I would be the go to guy for 944 racing in NASA Az. I woud cover Spec, cup and supercup.

 

Again all of this is coming from ONLY my head so don't assume anyone else has any idea on this in and form of being offical... It IS NOT! It all comes from the mind of one caffine infected racer.

 

seems like you have all the marbles rolling upstairs because its a great idea!

 

and as for running it, there still needs to be people that decide the rules and whatnot for all the classes. once everything like that is setup i dont think there will be any problems!

 

but really I think its a great idea!!

[genikz]

I'd hit it!

 

It would be kind of nice to step up to a 951 track car someday, when the NA gets too slow for me and still race the same group of guys!

 

granted that will probably take 10 years at the rate I'm going...

 

It seems like 944 Spec turn out at the NASA events has been a little low lately, so maybe this will help bring in new blood with cars already ready to go that now fit into a new sub-class of 944 Cup or 944-4-LIFE or whatever the hell it would be called

[Helldin]

Darn..

This is the best thing I heard in many years of racing. Seems like I am always a step behind. Well now I am actually one step ahead.

With NASA going national racing we need to combine classes, important to simplify rules and run together.

I come from a many year background in SCCA and NASA driving Camaros and Firebirds. SSGT, AI and CMC..

We just need to team up 944 drivers nationally and figure out a formula where " can we all get along"

We will now have an opportunity to race with not only NASA but also with PCA/POC as they have adopted classes as well.

 

I know Tim and Joe out west been in charge of 944 racing for a while And done a darn good job too . But we need to grow and need to coordinate classes to be able to go truly National. Dave is a great National director for 944-cup.

I have offered to help out as West Coast Director for Cup/Supercup.

( Especially now when I have a Supercup car myself!)

 

Most important..at this time we need all try to coordinate our racing all over USA.

 

Yes I am new to 944 Racing, But owned them since ...oh well.. but been NASA official for many years.

 

 

Dave has asked me to be West Coast director for 944-Cup.

I will accept and will have time (done with my time on local PCA Board)

And love to try to coordinate/make it my mission to make 944 racing its own class.

 

Give me all of your opinions....And for a Porsche Freak like me, can only afford to race a 944. But lucky enough to be able to drive just about anything else..

 

Per Helldin

 

Let the trash talk and questions start

[Chuck T.]

step 1.

what are the 944 cup rules? i did not see them on the nasa website....

 

I seem to remember they are based on everone can run... I think thats a good idea if you want car count but i want close racing.

 

Not to be overly blunt or rude BUT , I am not interested in racing where I must spend big bucks to have a chance to run up front. it seems to me we have a spec class. spec means we all have the same stuff so i know i did not get beat by your $$$$ . if 944 cup does not spell stuff out I am not interested. so we need to figure this out quick so i can sell my 4 cars and get an AI ($$$$) car or get with making my cars ready for the next race.

 

Chuck

[Tim Comeau]

Yes, it would be great to have one forumla across the country. I have been working hard to get more 944 spec groups established around the country. Right now, you can race a 944 spec car in NASA, POC, PCA, SCCA, with very little crossover mods, if any.

As far as combining 944 spec into 944 Cup there are 2 big stumbling blocks........

1. 944 Cup is a business owned by one person, Dave Derecola. 944 spec (NASA), Spec 944 (SCCA), 944 GSR (POC) are all classes owned by sanctioning bodies. We can't simply hand over all those club's cars.

 

2. We are a spec class. Our cars could cross over to a 944 Cup race and have some weight penalty levied in an attempt to "equalize" our cars. However, 944 Cup cars could never run in our spec class without actually becoming "spec" cars.

 

I still firmly believe the 944 spec formula is the best 944 racing solution because we have cheaper, simpler, more equal cars. But, there is room for both formulas to exist. Just put the class rules out there and let the drivers choose which one fits them better.

 

I'd personally rather see 944S's and 944S2's out here, running in a Porsche specific class, instead of being swallowed up by something like GTS. There just aren't enough of those cars to make a spec class from.

[944 cup]

step 1.

what are the 944 cup rules? i did not see them on the nasa website....

 

I seem to remember they are based on everone can run... I think thats a good idea if you want car count but i want close racing.

 

The 944 Cup rules are not on the NASA web site because the series is an independent race series and not a NASA owned series.

 

To find the 944 Cup rules, you can find on the the 944 Cup web site: http://www.44cup.com. Like 944 Spec, the series has a specific set of rules that cover car preparation. The 944 Cup specs are different then 944 Spec.

 

The 944 Cup rule set does provide for close competition which is one of the reasons the series has attracted fields as large as 38 cars.

 

 

so we need to figure this out quick so i can sell my 4 cars and get an AI ($$$$) car or get with making my cars ready for the next race.

 

In the end, NASA will decide what they want for a 944 class/series. Not sure how quick that will happen.

[DanElam]

ROFL. As a semi-outsider to 944s in general, it seems to me that the choices are either you guys figure out a way to combine or that 944 Spec gets gobbled up by Performance Touring because of low car counts. 944 Cup is now the largest individual regional race group in the country. As someone who has played a significant role in building another NASA race group, I say that with more than a little envy. Car counts have to, well, count. Based on what I see tonight on NASANationals.com, the ratio is 8:1 for Cup to Spec (and that doesn't include Super Cup). It is the second most popular class at Nationals (trailing the national spec Miata class by a single car - again, not including Super Cup). And isn't there something about if you don't have enough cars in the class you don't get to run unless you switch to Performance Touring.

 

Is one set of rules better than another? Without getting into the religion here, I would say 'beats me'. There are pros and cons to any class and any rule set.

 

If NASA were to adopt 944 Cup as a National class I wouldn't expect Mr. Derecola to object. It isn't like I see that he can make any money doing it. Quite the opposite: I see him putting together great deals that benefit people other himself.

 

But 944Cup shouldn't assume that they get a free pass within NASA. Cup has an incentive to become a National class in the long run: with Performance Touring looking like it will swallow many of the other groups, Cup runs a real risk of one day not being able to get enough track time and being a wildly popular regional class with no home.

 

Perhaps the funniest thing is that I don't often check in on the 944 community and couldn't believe that I see the same grandstanding now that I was seeing last year. It's like 'Groundhog Day', but the cast may be funnier.

[944-Spec#94]

Not to be overly blunt or rude BUT , I am not interested in racing where I must spend big bucks to have a chance to run up front. it seems to me we have a spec class. spec means we all have the same stuff so i know i did not get beat by your $$$$ . if 944 cup does not spell stuff out I am not interested. so we need to figure this out quick so i can sell my 4 cars and get an AI ($$$$) car or get with making my cars ready for the next race.

 

Chuck

 

Chuck,

944 cup rules are not as closly controled as 944 spec rules. However I don't plan on giving up on spec and it rules any time soon. I really woud like to see 944 cup and 944 spec work together as I think by working together we can be stronger than trying to tell everyone we are "better".

 

The major problem however is what Tim pointed out. In 944 cup you can add a different prep and with weight equalize things enough to make it fun. In 944 spec we do not have that luxury. For the spirit of the class to remain we must keep the cars nearly identical. If the difference between spec and cup was only a few things like aftermarket FG front spoilers, 8" wheels, lexan windshield and 25lbs in weight we could probably find middle ground. Unfortunatly the differences hit at the core intents of each class. I see this similar to Spec Miata and ITA Miatas. While the prep level of the cars may be somewhat similar and cars may be able to cross over the intents of each class are vastly different. This is the same for 944 spec vs 944 cup.

 

So in the end I really see spec, cup and supercup as similar, but different classes. I believe we can and should all work together to create large 944 fields.

 

I have no intent or desire to let 944 spec die. The building of 70+ cars since 2002 has shown there is just too much interest in the 944 spec ideal of racing to allow it to fade away. People really like the idea of low cost, equal racing of Porsches and the 944 is ideal for this mission.