Sterling Doc Posted October 12, 2006 Share Posted October 12, 2006 Well,since my previous racecar just sold, I'm looking for a new one. I'd like to do a RWD German car, and a spec class for cost sake. My prev. 924S was a blast (if illegal for spec 944 d/t motor mods), so I'm partial to that, but spec E30, and those inline 6's sound swee too... Hmmm.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
944-Spec#94 Posted October 12, 2006 Share Posted October 12, 2006 FWIW 944 spec is more "spec" than E30 spec. E30 allows different engines at various weights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilateapex Posted October 12, 2006 Share Posted October 12, 2006 Spec E30 is doing away with the other engines and weights. One car, one spec. Check out the Spec E30 web site. The E30 is bound to be less expensive to run. Michael O. BMW E30 325i GTS1/KP/ITS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
944-Spec#94 Posted October 12, 2006 Share Posted October 12, 2006 The E30 is bound to be less expensive to run. Why is that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilateapex Posted October 12, 2006 Share Posted October 12, 2006 It seems that most over on the spec E30 forums can build their cars for around $8500 and not more than $10,000. After they are built they are very easy to maintain. LSD diffs, tranny's and engine's are easy to find in junk yards and are cheap. I would guess that it would be harder to find 944 parts and I know the tranny/diff is more complicated. In addition, I purchased my E30 ITS car for $7500 and added about $1,000 in upgrades. With this car I have been able to win the GTS1 National Championship as well as the regional Championship. I was 2nd in points last year in BMWCR KP and it would have been a close race for 1st if not for Katrina taking lots of my time late in the season. I have not done much to the car in the 3 years I have owned it except run the hell out of it. I find the E30 to be a bullet proof platform for a race car. Parts cheap, cars cheap, good combo. Michael O. BMW E30 325i GTS1/KP/ITS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sterling Doc Posted October 13, 2006 Author Share Posted October 13, 2006 It seems that most over on the spec E30 forums can build their cars for around $8500 and not more than $10,000. After they are built they are very easy to maintain. LSD diffs, tranny's and engine's are easy to find in junk yards and are cheap. I would guess that it would be harder to find 944 parts and I know the tranny/diff is more complicated. In addition, I purchased my E30 ITS car for $7500 and added about $1,000 in upgrades. With this car I have been able to win the GTS1 National Championship as well as the regional Championship. I was 2nd in points last year in BMWCR KP and it would have been a close race for 1st if not for Katrina taking lots of my time late in the season. I have not done much to the car in the 3 years I have owned it except run the hell out of it. I find the E30 to be a bullet proof platform for a race car. Parts cheap, cars cheap, good combo. Michael O. BMW E30 325i GTS1/KP/ITS Interesting. One plus of the 944 is that they are galvanized and don't rust. I hate rust, and living in the midwest, the available cars out her are often rusty. I'd be interested to drive an E30 to see if they're as fun to drive as the 924/44. Also, neither class existes out here (yet), and I'd be interested to know which is more competitive in GTS1, where I may end up racing for a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
944-Spec#94 Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 It seems that most over on the spec E30 forums can build their cars for around $8500 and not more than $10,000. After they are built they are very easy to maintain. LSD diffs, tranny's and engine's are easy to find in junk yards and are cheap. I would guess that it would be harder to find 944 parts and I know the tranny/diff is more complicated. Michael O. BMW E30 325i GTS1/KP/ITS 944 spec cars run about the same price. 8k if you do all the work yourself, 12k if you have a shop build you a car. Most of the resale 944 run 8 to 12k. 12k has everything done to it with fresh paint. The 944 is also pretty easy to maintain as well. Once built they require oil changes, front pads last 1/2 season to full season and the toyo's we run are last along time as you guys know. Remember don't confuse 944 spec with 944 cup . The 944 cup formula will cost more to build and run (mostly due to the allowance of hoosiers). As for the tranny/diff the only complex part is that the tranny is the diff too. Used these can be picked up for $250 and require little to no maintence. I have been running my 944 since 2000 and have a good handle on costs as I have done 100% of the work on the car. I have won some 25 straight races between 2002 and early 2004 before a short break. Since then all those guys I was beating caught up to my speed because they were racing I was stitting on my butt. I have been in "chase" mode ever since. In the end I think the cost difference between an E30 and 944 spec is probably very small and would have more to do with the quality of your base car, your ability/desire to wrench on it, and if you have good sources for parts. Being both Mid-80's german cars parts cost is not much different and alot has to do if you know where to get the parts. So Sterling Doc. I would figure the same budget for a spec E30 as you would for the 944-spec. It may vary some, but not very much I suspect. A car built to 944 cup would be more costly to build to limit of the rules and more costly to operate mostly due to the tire bill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmw22 Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 There is no way a 944 can cost the same as an e30 to race! Price a part for each car and the e30 will be much less. Price a cam for both cars, or maybe clutch replacement. Hawk Blues for the e30 are $74, ...$115 for the 944. e30 chassis are a dime a dozen. I bought a rust free 1989 for $300. In 2004, I built a 1991 318is GTS1 car for less than $4000. Bought the car on ebay $1300, complete ground control suspension on ebay (camber plates, coil overs, sway bars, Koni sports) $900, Kirk Racing cage $600, Window net, seat harness for RacerWholesale $350, set of RA1 Toyos $420, and %200-$300 in OEM replacement parts. First time out, the car turned 1:10 at Beaverun. Can you even buy a solid 944 street car for $4000? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmw22 Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 Sterling Doc, I noticed that you are from IL. You may want to ban the spec idea. There are no spece30 or 944 racers in the midwest. GTS is the only German car series that has entries in the Midwest and OH/IN regions. Occasionally one of the MidAtlantic e30 boys will find their way to Beaverun or MidOhio. Buy ilateapex's 325is GTS1 car. He tried to sell it to me at the Nationals It's a fast car, proven by this year's GTS1 Championship in the OH/IN region! (Congrats Mike) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
944-Spec#94 Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 There is no way a 944 can cost the same as an e30 to race!Price a part for each car and the e30 will be much less. Price a cam for both cars, or maybe clutch replacement. Hawk Blues for the e30 are $74, ...$115 for the 944. e30 chassis are a dime a dozen. I bought a rust free 1989 for $300. In 2004, I built a 1991 318is GTS1 car for less than $4000. Bought the car on ebay $1300, complete ground control suspension on ebay (camber plates, coil overs, sway bars, Koni sports) $900, Kirk Racing cage $600, Window net, seat harness for RacerWholesale $350, set of RA1 Toyos $420, and %200-$300 in OEM replacement parts. First time out, the car turned 1:10 at Beaverun. Can you even buy a solid 944 street car for $4000? Mark, You can get solid 944 for 2500. Cams? only stock cams are legal in 944 spec. I bought a rust free 88 924S for $330 and sold the 16" wheels off it for $250. We use $200 a set 15 inchers and I sold of some interior parts for $60. I know plenty of car picked up for $500 and built into race cars. In realilty the costs for the cars is very similar and will be driven more by the base car you buy and how you chose to build it. The idea that the 944 is more expenisve is a fallicy. A 944 will cost more than $4000 race BMW if you chose to put in a custom cage,FG race seat, firesystem, fancy FIA harness. Those alone bring you to $3300, but as you know can be done for alot less too. I can build a competitive 944 for $6000 base car and parts. I can also build a competitive 944 for $12000 base car and parts. Neither car will be faster, but the $12k car will alot more "nice to have" things. Seems like the build costs are a wash and operating costs are wash. Now somefolks like the BMW and others like a Porsche. Given the prep rules allowed in both series the costs are going to vary more within competitiors in the same series than between the series. Now GTS1 will cost more to run and Spec E30 or 944 spec. The single reason is down to tires. Tires are open in GTS and to be fast you need to be on the fastest tires. Both E30 and 944 spec classes are on spec toyo's. Given the operating cost break out for 944 spec the tires are 45% of the costs the 45% is entry fees and the remaining 10% is "maintence" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce L. Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 http://spece30.northamericanbavarianracing.com/component/option,com_mamboboard/Itemid,68/func,view/id,6598/catid,16/ here's why you want to race a spec e30 - look at the film strip like images part way down the thread - shows a 944 spinning and the evasive action by the spec e30's to miss it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
944 cup Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 It seems that most over on the spec E30 forums can build their cars for around $8500 and not more than $10,000. Michael O.BMW E30 325i GTS1/KP/ITS 944 spec cars run about the same price. 8k if you do all the work yourself, 12k if you have a shop build you a car. Most of the resale 944 run 8 to 12k. 12k has everything done to it with fresh paint. A car built to 944 cup would be more costly to build to limit of the rules and more costly to operate mostly due to the tire bill. Not sure why u continue to throw the 944 Cup under the bus Joe, but your wrong again. 944 Cup cars regularly sell for less then 944 Spec cars, as you can see on this Forum: 944 Cup $9k: http://www.nasaforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=68730#68730 $6.4k : http://www.nasaforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=8032&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0 $5k: http://www.nasaforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=9847 $5.8k: http://www.nasaforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=9334 944 Spec $11k: http://www.nasaforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=11776 $12.5K: http://www.nasaforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=10394 $8.7k: http://www.nasaforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=9804 $8.5: http://www.nasaforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=9327 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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