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New to forums, building up spec 944, have a few questions


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Posted

Hi, I have a 1983 944 that has 150,000 or so miles got it for pretty much free since it had a orignal rubber clutch center disk and was just a matter of time before before it went. Anyway it only took a few autocrosses to finish it off. So my dad and I are going to build it up into a spec 944 car. I reasearched numerous classes and came to the conclusion that this had the best racing for the least amount of money. Here is what we plan on doing and some questions. Also I live in massachusetts the closest tracks are Lime Rock Watkins Glen and NHIS. I was wondering about how much of an east coast spec 944 group you have. Although i was happy to see if all else fails one can run PCA in SP1.

 

Plan:

Dissassemble half the car to do clutch

Put in shorter 5th?? while tranny is out

Put 30mm rear torsion bars

350LB front spring with coil overs

koni sport adjustables all around

sway bars???

strut tower bar????

Put on cat bursh headers

put ra1s on 7inch fuchs

Autopower cage or saftey devices???

Momo start seat

G force 5point harnesses

Get rid of HIDEOUS yellow guages with 924s guages

ad some sort of racing tach

 

Questions

Is a short fifth necessary to be competetive

what type of sway bars to use ( Prefer oversteer to under and do not want to spend money on weltmeister )

What type of strut tower brace? that isnt a fortune

are fuchs allowed since thats whats on the car?

What type of cage do you guys reccomend

also spec 944 and 944 cup, Difference?

For nasa I'm assuming you have to be 18 correct? Since i'll have to wait until next august to run with them.

 

Anyway thanks for your time, im looking for anyfeed back or suggestions,

Thanks Mike

Posted (edited)

Questions

Is a short fifth necessary to be competetive - depends on the track. Where you used 5th then yes. However there are more important things when starting out.

 

what type of sway bars to use ( Prefer oversteer to under and do not want to spend money on weltmeister ) - The solid welts are worth the moeny due to their adjustability. Only thign cheaper are 968 M030 which are not adjustable in front and limited adjustments in the rear. There are cars runnign well with the 968 M030 fronts however. In fact the cheapest suspension setup is 250lbs welt front springs, stock upper mounts, Koni's all around and 30 mm rear t-bars, 968 M030 front sway bar and stock rear sway bar. There are a few racers using this set-up with good sucess.

 

What type of strut tower brace? that isnt a fortune KLA is $129? This is not the most important thing to run. Get it as you have the money.

 

are fuchs allowed since thats whats on the car? - NO FUCHS ALLOWED. 15x7 Cookie cutters or 15x7 Phone dials offset needs to be 23.3 mm these wheels cost $200-250 per set of 4. 2 sets of wheels is a really good idea when racing. 1 set is fine for DE.

 

What type of cage do you guys reccomend - I like custom cages. They cost more, but they give much more inside space

 

also spec 944 and 944 cup, Difference? - Yes 944 spec is more restrictive in the prep with limited shocks, rear spring rates, wheels & tires. 944 cup all allows these to be open so it is possible to spend 2x for those parts on a cup prepared car.

 

For nasa I'm assuming you have to be 18 correct? Since i'll have to wait until next august to run with them. - I think you can DE at 17 (or 16) with parent. You might even be able to race before that too, but by the time you build the car and run some DE's you will be 18.

 

RE Headers Stock headers work just as well maybe even better. Only replace if what you have is broken.

 

RE TACH Stock tach works great wen put in the center hole of the cluster. Also while you can add a tach the stock gauges must remain in the car by rule.

 

Full Rules are at http://944spec.org

Edited by Guest
Posted
I was wondering about how much of an east coast spec 944 group you have. Although i was happy to see if all else fails one can run PCA in SP1.

 

also spec 944 and 944 cup, Difference?

 

im looking for anyfeed back or suggestions,

Thanks Mike

 

Mike:

 

Be glad to answer any questions you have about 944 Cup rules for preparation. The claims that the cost of a Cup 944 vs spec being double is exaggerated. The Cup series is the largest 944 series here on the East Coast with a NorthEast Chapter in your area with races at the Glen, Lime Rock, and Pocono, along with a National Championship race.

Posted
Yes 944 spec is more restrictive in the prep with limited shocks, rear spring rates, wheels & tires. 944 cup all allows these to be open so it is possible to spend 2x for those parts on a cup prepared car.

 

 

Since you use PCA rules and PCA rules allow remote reservior dampers as well as proper racing dampers from JRZ, Moton, LEDA etc the potental cost for a maxed out 944 cup is greater than that of 944 spec car.

 

Then consider the small tire/wheels we use in 944 spec. PCA rules allow 17 or 18inch wheels and any tire that fits. An Hoosier that fits an 18x8 wheel will cost alot more than 225/50 R15 Toyo RA1.

 

Of couse you may need not Penske racing shocks and 18" Hoosiers to run in 944 cup, but as the rules go these parts are legal. a 235mm hoosier on 18x8 wheels will be faster than 225 Toyo on 15x7 wheels. If you want run in front you will need to be prepard to spent that kind of money. If not now then in the future.

 

In 944 spec once you get the basic suspension there is nothing left to get. Once you get Koni's 350's and 30's there are not "faster" parts to get. In 944 cup you can still decide to spend $5k on a set of Motons and run 1000lbs-in spring rate. It just might get you that 1/2 second you have been looking for.

Just because people have not done so does not mean they won't. The reason you are seeing 944 cup cars going for less money is that they are not prepared to the limit of the PCA rules. Most 944 spec cars for sale are being preppared to the limit of the rules.

Posted (edited)

are fuchs allowed since thats whats on the car?

Thanks Mike

 

ps, Yes, the Fuchs are legal in the 944 Cup, no need to go out and buy different wheels. And despite claims that the 18 inch wheels are faster then the 15's, another exaggeration, most of the racers in the 944 Cup run the 15's. It's just that the 944 Cup does not differntiate between one style of Porsche wheel from another. We have found the Fuchs are no faster then the cookie cutters. So use what u have in the Cup.

 

ps. For NorthEast info: http://northeast.44cup.com/

Edited by Guest
Posted

TOSI,

There are 2 different sets of rules. 944 Cup and 944 spec. Spec 944 is the SCCA version of the same class.

You'll find that 944 spec has a ceiling for spending that is much lower than 944 Cup. 944 Cup is ok, it's just a different formula, which tries to include many different models of Porsches.

Fuchs alloys are still some of the best wheels ever made. But they also cost $700-$750 for a set of 7"s and 8"s x 15". Compare that to our 944 spec rules which state, " 7" x 15" cookie cutters or phone dials", which are $250 per set!

People are finding that they can get close racing in nearly identical cars for less money in the 944 spec class. And they can run their cars in PCA Club Racing or NASA. Pick the events that fit your life's schedule. If you want to sell your car in the future, you can sell it anywhere in the USA!

Sounds like you're off to a good start!

Let's go racing!

Posted

If you accept the fact that it is less expensive to buy a ready made race car vs building one, then the prices for 944 Cup cars indicate that going racing in the 944 Cup is not the more expensive alternative:

 

 

944 Cup

 

$9k: http://www.nasaforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=68730#68730

$6.4k : http://www.nasaforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=8032&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

$5k: http://www.nasaforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=9847

$5.8k: http://www.nasaforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=9334

 

 

944 Spec

 

$11k: http://www.nasaforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=11776

$12.5K: http://www.nasaforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=10394

$8.7k: http://www.nasaforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=9804

$8.5: http://www.nasaforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=9327

Posted (edited)

... decided to deleted this as I went way too OT for this thread.

 

Sorry guys

Edited by Guest
Posted

Dave the last 3 cars you mention are not turn key race cars. All need work to bring to the front. Infact the buyer of you 6.4k listed car has put ALOT more work in the car. The 944 spec cars are Turn key cars. The 9k car listed is turn key and is more inline with pricing. However it does not have a fully maxed out 944 cup suspension. It is much more similar to the 944 spec suspension.

 

 

Being out on the West Coast, you're not in position to know how competitve any of the above cars are in the series never having raced in or even watched a race in the series, or what it takes. Similarily I'm not familiar with the cars out West, and I'm not in a position to accurately asses their standing in the spec. And in fact you really don't know what was spent on the $6.4k car, what was spent on driver preferences rather necessity, or what the car's past record is in the series.

 

Additionally when you consider the significantly lower price of the advertised Cup cars, ALOT more could be spent before rising to the spec car price. Which at the worse would make the cars comparable in price. And then to claim the Cup cars are 2x the price of spec cars, that rises to the level of exaggerated.

Posted

Get the gun out of the closet Kenny, we got poachers!!! Kidding Dave, it just seemed like a funny joke. It cracks me up you all arguing about the price of one car versus the next. All the time, BOTH of you are bringing DOWN the value of local cars that people may now or later need to sell. I 'suspect' you are both wrong in some ways. If you want to run up the front, in EITHER class I suspect, you need to spend more money than the asking price of these cars listed, which the exception of Eric's car which had most of the goodies for an EXCEPTIONAL selling price. Why do you guys insist on selling either of these classes as cheap cheap cheap? All your doing, is getting guys into the class that think they can hob coble a car together for a few bucks and go out to run and a) be competitive and b) not have multiple failures. Then these cars get on track, blow out rod bearings, have wheel bearing failures, electrical failures, suspension failures and make the class look bad. When other drivers and classes see broken down 944 oiling up the track and comprimising run sessions because of failures, they talk talk talk about the loser 944's. Your 'competition' to convince this new guy which is the best class is actually hurting each class. How about you present the new guy with the rules, let him know the fact that there is limits in spending in one class versus the other, whether you 'choose' to spend or even need to? And then present him with the biggest factor, do you want to start a new class and be a leader, or join an established class with already established competitors? Either way, if the 'front runners' have spent a lot of money, unless your an exceptional shoe, you will have to spend what ever they spend to keep up with them. Either class cost whatever your driving talent subtracts from the cost of the front runners cars?

 

P.D.

Posted

Mike,

Getting back on topic

 

Here are a couple Links from our website that covers car prep level and operating expenses.

 

http://members.rennlist.com/m758/car-set-up.htm

 

I wrote this in Early 2003 and have not made and major changes since then. Other than a repaint as after 3 years of rock blasting the car was looking really ratty.

 

 

Here is a little something I put togther to cover operating costs. These assume you do most labor except for the rod bearings.

 

944specOpertingCosts.jpg

 

This includes most racing related maintence work. It does not including troubleshooting a crappy POS car to start with. Most of the car running today as spec cars were bought as crappy POS cars that were had one (or more) tires scrappile (or so to speak). Therefore it can take some time to workout all the little things that can fail on 20+year old poorly taken car of cars. Once all that stuff is done the reoccuring maintince costs are as stated. Since last December after I painted my car the only work done on my car has been the following.

 

- Oil Changes

- 1 front brake pad change

- Replaced all 4 shocks after 4 years of use. 1 was dead, but I think the other 3 were fine.

- Recorner balanced and aligned after shock change

- new tranny main seal - replaced original one 17 years old

- installaton wink 5 panel mirror

- power to manual window (via strap) conversion

 

Over that time I have

10 races and 13 total track days.

Race Finishes over that time, 0 DNF's

1st - 2

2nd - 3

3rd - 2

4th - 2

7th - 1

 

In fact over my 59 race carrer with the car since April 2002 I have 3 DNF's and 1 DNS. 1 of the DNF's was due to running out fuel in the last 2 laps of a 2hr enduro. Completely user error!

Posted

Thanks alot for the help guys. Its appreciated, but now im sort of confused about rules, tell me if I have figured this out correctly, PCA has adopted spec 944 rules for sp1 this is important to me since there a quite a few pca events at lime rock so it would be nice even if there isnt a huge field to just be able to run laps.(http://www.pca.org/clubrace/docs/forms.htm)

I can run a spec 944 in 944 cup with out any changes and to try and make them competetive against ITS cars spec 944 cars are given a 200 pound advantage. The nasa run offs run 44cup rules not spec 944 rules.

Now do I have that all correct?

 

Also I wont have any problem preparing the car my dad has raced profesionally has prepared lots of race cars and he owns and independent porschce repair shop. So its more a question of what to prepare the car too. Also spec 944 rules are exactley the competitive set up for class 2 pca autocrossing.

 

Also a few questions

how long will a set of shaved RA1s last?

How many of you guys drive to the track? On your rains with shocks set full soft?

How much spec 944 is there east coast? South or north, since its not to bad to bomb down to summit or vir from mass especially if you can take the car as opposed to towing.

Also any of you guys have some video?

 

Thanks, Mike

Posted

PCA has adopted spec 944 rules for sp1?

Yes SP1 are NASA 944 spec Rules See http://944spec.org for those rules. PCA has said they will accept NASA class rules 100%. Do make sure safety wise you meet PCA rules. This should not be hard however.

I can run a spec 944 in 944 cup with out any changes and to try and make them competetive against ITS cars spec 944 cars are given a 200 pound advantage?

Dave Derecola (944 cup director) has adopted SP1 prep with no changes in 944 cup. Time will tell how competitive that prep level will be. So far one or two cars have used the SP1 prep level and seem to have been competititve. However racing in 944cup is not like 944 spec as in 944 cup there are multiple weights, multple engine hp leves and various suspension tire configurations. In 944 spec everyone has the same engines, same tires, same wheels, same weight, same suspensions.

 

The nasa run offs run 44cup rules not spec 944 rules?

NO! 944 spec was offered at the NASA National Championships. However since the bulk of the 944 spec class is on the west coast and the cost of a cross counrty haul is quite high, we did not attend. Unless things change 944 spec will be offered again in 2008. 944 spec is an official NASA sponsored class. 944 cup runs as independant class that is common guest group in NASA. What this means is that control of 944 spec is by NASA National and adminstered by the series directors. 944 cup is run by Dave Derecola and he had entred his group in non NASA events on occasion. The SP classes are run and administed by PCA Club Racing

 

Also a few questions

how long will a set of shaved RA1s last?

Based on my 5-6 sets over the years you can expect 30-40 heat cycles on the tires. Tha comes to about 9 track days. Two sets are best as they take 5-6 heat cylces before the tires srubb in and pick up speed. By the end their life they cycle out rather than cord. Their grip drops off quite dramactly. While in their grip window, heat cycle #7 to about #40, they are very consistant.

 

How many of you guys drive to the track? I don't, but some do. When the cars are fully prepared you can still keep them street legal, but they are not pleasant for long street drives. Plan properly however and you can stuff a full set of spare tires, jack, tools and spare parts in a caged 944 and drive to the track. Driving to the track is done usally on the new tires since the older faster tires are mostly bald. Shock adjustments are rare.

 

On your rains with shocks set full soft? When it rains run 4/32 shaved toyo for intermediates or full thread 8/32 in a downpour. The tires work well. Front shocks are adjust able in 30 seconds under the hood. Rears must be removed from the car to adjust. If you think it will rain you can make all the adjustments you like. It is typical for most racers to have two sets of tires one worn down and fast the other reciently shaved and used for pratice.

 

How much spec 944 is there east coast? South or north, since its not to bad to bomb down to summit or vir from mass especially if you can take the car as opposed to towing. Right now there is more 944 cup on the east coast. this is mostly due to each group originating locally. Dave's plan was to join PCA I stock cars with SCCA ITS cars that were already prevalant in the area. Therefore his rules are based around that.

 

On the west coast 944 spec was start from the ground up as a low cost spec series using the cheapest Porsche around, the 944. Nearly all the 80+ 944 spec cars in this area were built for the class there are virtually no ITS or I-stock cars over here. 944 spec has primary regions in Arizona and Southern California. We have grown in the past year to Northern California and Colorado. We also have 1 other car running SP1 in the New Work area. Bill Comat from Toronto, Canada has a 944 spec car built and just ran Daytona PCA race. He and Mantis Sport (the guys with Yellow Cayman S PCA E car) are planning on building a few more and running PCA with them.

 

Also any of you guys have some video?

Check out the website I believe their are a few. I have plenty of Videos on VHS. PM me and I can send you a copy of the my incar where I came in 2nd place by 0.107

Posted

Thanks alot, that cleared up all my questions and confusion. Looking forward to running as soon as I can. Mike

Posted

Ok guys - now I'm confused. Maybe to be expected for a newbie like me still planning the purchase/build of a 944 Cup car and not having turned a 944 wheel on the track yet but...

 

My understanding was that the PCA rules roughly aligned as follows

 

SP1 ~ 944 Spec

SP2 ~ 944 Cup

SP3 ~ 944 Supercup

 

If this is correct, SP2 and SP3 rules both sepecify

 

- maximum wheel size of 16 x7 (tires are open)

- no remote reservoir shocks

 

Joe's points were that for Cup, tires/wheels were open and remote rez shocks were allowed arccording to PCA rules. What am I missing???

 

thanks!

Gary

Posted

My understanding was that the PCA rules roughly aligned as follows

 

SP1 ~ 944 Spec

SP2 ~ 944 Cup

SP3 ~ 944 Supercup

 

 

This is 100% true and correct. PCA SP rules are identical to the 944spec, 944 cup, 944 supercup rule sets as shown above.

 

 

If this is correct, SP2 and SP3 rules both sepecify

 

- maximum wheel size of 16 x7 (tires are open)

- no remote reservoir shocks

 

Joe's points were that for Cup, tires/wheels were open and remote rez shocks were allowed arccording to PCA rules. What am I missing???

 

What you are missing is the 944 cup has 7 prep levels and super cup has a few as well. In some of those prep rules wheels are limited to 16x7. In others there are fewer restrictions. Here is detail breakout of 944 spec & 944 cup.

 

944 Spec = 2600lbs, 15x7 Toyo's rules as defined in http://944spec.org

944 Cup = 7 different prep rules legal in 944 cup

Per the 944 cup rules you can build a car to 944 spec, PCA Stock/prepared or SCCA ITS rules and with some edits run them in 944 cup. Here is simplified breakout.

- PCA SP1 (944-spec prep) = 100% to 944 spec rules

- PCA I Stock 2.5L = I-stock rules, but allows stripping interior and weight to 2650lbs with driver

- PCA H Preppared 2.5L = H preppared rules, but stripped interior 2750lbs

- SCCA ITS 2.5L = ITS rules, but ballasted to 2800lbs

- PCA Stock 2.7L

- PCA Preppared 2.7L

- SCCA ITS 2.7L ( These 2.7L cars run closer to 3000lbs)

 

 

 

For some Examples of the allowed suspension differences.

944spec(SP1) = 30 mm t-bars max & Koni Yellows, Camberplates 15x7's and Toyo's

I-stock = Coilovers in the rear and leda's, or other proper racing dampers. (pinned camberplates) - larger wheels 8's and up to 18" and tire size/brand

H - stock = same as I, but allow free camberplates (not pinned), 9's allowed and 18" and tire size/brand

ITS = No coilovers, but allows big (34 mm t-bars) and racing shocks, 7" wide max, but any wheel and up to 16" diameter

 

 

Now... why all this confusion?

well 944 cup is series based on taking existing 944s built to various rules and making them equal to all run togther. This is why there are 7 different prep levels all with different rules and allowances. Some of these rules sets have different allowances. For example SCCA ITS rules allow for a more developed (higher hp) motor than PCA rules, but then you are restricted in to a max fo 16x7" wheels. PCA rules limit the motors over the SCCA rules, but allow for bigger wheels/tires. The minimum weights are all different to create level playing field.

 

By contrast 944 spec was created from the group up as single series with rules developed to create a low cost, equal, fun racing platform. SP1 rules ARE the 944 spec rules with zero changes.

 

So as you can see from this if you want to build the the car run strong in 944 cup(SP2) you would want to pick one of these rules sets and build to the limit of that. 944 spec(SP1) by contrast is 1 prep level of all cars.

 

Super cup is an extension of 944 cup and so also uses multiple rule sets.

Posted

I dont know if any of the 44cup guys are on here, but is there any chance that they would consider adding a seperate class for cars prepared to 944 spec if they could get enough entrys. Since I cant see a spec 944 even with weight advantage being even close to an its or similarly prepared cars.

Posted
I dont know if any of the 44cup guys are on here, but is there any chance that they would consider adding a seperate class for cars prepared to 944 spec if they could get enough entrys. Since I cant see a spec 944 even with weight advantage being even close to an its or similarly prepared cars.

 

We have given thought to that idea of adding another class. We had decided not to because we found that the lap times for spec and cup cars were close enough that it would provide too much overlap between the 2 classes. The downside is that we end up spreading the class fields too thin

--- reducing the competition rather then making a change to increase competition. We have seen this happen in PCA and some in NASA where there are so many classes that are too close together that you end up having too few cars in class to race against. If you look at how the 944 Cup is designed, combining numerous 944 models together when practical is the way we go about things. A somewhat different approach from 944 spec, but similar in that both series attempt to minimize the number of classes with in the series'.

 

That is why we ended up including the PCA SP1(944 spec) cars in the 944 Cup class but at a reduced weight. We plan to lower the weight again to 2550 lbs for 2007 in an attempt to further balance the field. While many of the cars in the 944 Cup class have minimal differences in suspension from a spec car, the most frequent difference is the tires. We did happen to have a few legal 944 spec cars run in the series with us this past year, and a few did show to be very fast. I know of 2 poduims.

 

I can run a spec 944 in 944 cup with out any changes and to try and make them competetive against ITS cars spec 944 cars are given a 200 pound advantage. The nasa run offs run 44cup rules not spec 944 rules.

Now do I have that all correct?

 

Mike

 

For 2007 the difference between a 944 ITS car and 944 spec car in the 944 Cup would be 250 lbs. In the 2006 NASA championship you coudl have run 944 Cup or 944 spec. With only 1 entry in 944 spec, the class was not eligible for a champion to be crowned.

 

How much spec 944 is there east coast? South or north, since its not to bad to bomb down to summit or vir from mass especially if you can take the car as opposed to towing.Also any of you guys have some video?

 

For a bunch of 944 Cup video, check out: http://44cup.zeroforum.com/zeroforum?id=5

 

Here on the East Coast for NASA in 2006, didn't see any 944's running in Spec in the NE, MidAtalntic, SE or Fla. For some MidAtlantic numbers(includes summit/VIR), go here for some unofficial numbers: http://44cup.zeroforum.com/zerothread?id=1805

 

 

Thanks for the interest.

Posted
My understanding was that the PCA rules roughly aligned as follows

 

SP1 ~ 944 Spec

SP2 ~ 944 Cup

SP3 ~ 944 Supercup

 

If this is correct, SP2 and SP3 rules both sepecify

 

- maximum wheel size of 16 x7 (tires are open)

- no remote reservoir shocks

 

Joe's points were that for Cup, tires/wheels were open and remote rez shocks were allowed arccording to PCA rules. What am I missing???

Gary

 

Gary:

 

You have the class alignmets corect between Cup and PCA. PCA Stock classes have open tire rules and allow remotes. 944 Cup and PCA SP2 and 3 have an open tire rule for all cars, except those racing in the series under PCA SP1 rules Toyos required here.

 

 

On remote reservoir shocks, 944 Cup allows them on all cars except those racing under the SCCA (ITS) prep rules and PCA SP1 rules.

In PCA Sp2 and 3, allowed on all cars except those running under Category B rules.

 

Still confused? you can email me at [email protected].

  • Members
Posted

Enough with this "my dad is bigger than your dad" stuff.

 

Here is some insight from a guy who is not racing in either series, but is considering entering.

 

Bottomline, the value of a car being sold means nothing more than supply and demand value minus repairs/upgrades needed. Then factor in the seller's despiration to sell. However, if it did, then Dave only showed that 944 cup cars 1) don't hold their value, 2) there is not much demand for their cars, 3) there are lots of them for sale or 4) The ones for sale are not built to the max that the rules will allow. Joe is just simply stating that they keep the build to a minimum and make it a drivers series.

 

Furthermore, everyone knows that to run in front, you usually have to build the car to the max the rules will allow...and that costs money. Ipso facto, the more hardware mods you can make, the more money it will cost you to build the car. (notice I did not say BUY the car) That is undisputable.

 

Now, I would say that the best way to figure out what to race in takes four things:

1) Condiser your budget and what you could spend. Why?...because if you like racing in the series you choose, you will spend the money you have. You will find that you will want to build the car out as best you can so you can get on the podium. Let's face it, does anyone go out to race hoping to be last to the finish line?

 

2) Condiser who and what you are going to be racing with. The people in the series are a deal breaker for me. I'm not training for F1 and my last name is not Andretti. I want to go out for the weekend and have some healthy competition and some driving fun. After the race, I want to shake everyone's hand, buy the winner a beer and share some track stories because that is what is fun to me. You have to go to the track, meet the people and watch the runs. This will tell you the type of racing to expect and how many racers you will be running with. Then you will know MUCH better if that class if for you.

 

3) Follow your gut and consider what is important to you, not to anyone else. Sure, digest the information that is being presented, but use your head. Do they race at tracks I like? Will I have to trailer the car? Are the drives and weekends going to be too long? Can I really afford this class of racing? Should I stick to and be will I be happy just driving in HPDE's?

 

Like you, I would like a car that can cross over and be competative. However, consider that if you car can cross over diff. series and may be slightly slower, consider it a challange. Remember, just because the car might be a bit faster does not mean it will always win. I'll take a better driver any day...even if the cars are not the same, but even if the cars are close. What I am trying to say is being in a car that is slower forces you to develop your driving because the car can only do so much for you. So it's up to you to shave time with your hands, feet and head, not your engine and suspension...which is much harder to do.

 

What the arguments being presented tells me is that both people are passionate about their series, but they both want more cars on the track and not to loose a new racer to a different series. I have shared views with a ton of people during my due diligence period and have gathered many different opinions. However, going to a few race weekends really cleared things up for me. I could put cost aside and see if I liked the people and the level competition. One racer helping another to geto on the grid? People not letting you look under the hood? A few drivers talking to each other or all of them chatting and smiling?Once I could see these types of things, I then looked at each series and the possible costs. It was then easy for me...I decided the 944 spec class due to it being more of a driver series, with fun racing and VERY nice people. I'm not saying that the Cup series wasn't good place to go, but for me, it was not as much of want I wanted as the spec series. Not to mention that the Spec cars can compete in a few more series than the Cup cars for where I wanted to race.

 

First things first, concentrate on what is important to you and begin the process of getting your racing license. You're not going to take one green flag without it. Also, go to HPDE's and run at a rack to get laps and expereince under your belt. Don't just drive, but be a student of high performance driving. Work on your line and become as comfortable as you can on the track. Most of all, have fun and do what makes you happy. Because if your car breaks (they all do) and you don't like the series you are in, we will see your car posted pretty fast and possibly pretty cheap. Remember, you can build a basic car with minor mods (seat, belts, strut tower brace, maybe a roll cage) and not only drive it to, but run it at the HPDE's. If you like it, keep going within your classes rules. If not, you can sell it to anyone who wants to race in any of the series because you have given them a good platform to start from.

 

AGAIN, THIS WAS WHAT I FOUND TO BE GOOD FOR ME...FOLLOW #3 THE MOST...FOLLOW YOUR GUT!

 

I hope this helps and does not confuse the issue more for you.

 

Steven Stepanian

HPDE3 and climbing

Posted

Now, if you run 44cup with a 944spec car are you allowed to stick 8's in the back and still keep the 250lb weight advantage.

 

Also does anyone now how many sp1 entries there are going to be in '07. I might work on a few NER pca guys to build up a car since there are about 8 of us who autocross 924S/944's in p02m which is Identical to sp1 in suspension setup, so all that they would need is a cage, RA1's and to gut the interior if they felt like it.

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Posted

I would contact your local region and inquire on the numbers. Better yet, go to the events and don't just watch...go talk with the people there and get a feel for what it is like. Again, there is no way to replace the first hand experience.

 

Lesson one, read the rules for all classes. Don't rely on others only. The only one I would is the regional race director.

 

Good Luck!

Posted
Now, if you run 44cup with a 944spec car are you allowed to stick 8's in the back and still keep the 250lb weight advantage.

 

Nope.. Max wheel for 944 spec is 15x7 and a Toyo 225/50 R15 RA-1. Any other tire or wheel other than cookie cutters or phone dials is not legal in 944 spec. Thus you would be in SP2 prep or 2650lbs and running vs hoosiers and 16", 17" or 18" wheels 8" at all corners.

 

Also does anyone now how many sp1 entries there are going to be in '07. I might work on a few NER pca guys to build up a car since there are about 8 of us who autocross 924S/944's in p02m which is Identical to sp1 in suspension setup, so all that they would need is a cage, RA1's and to gut the interior if they felt like it.

 

Not sure right now. Check out our who is building a 944 spec thread. If you build it they will come.

Posted
Lesson one, read the rules for all classes. Don't rely on others only. The only one I would is the regional race director.

 

 

And in the case of the 944 Cup, please feel free to keep asking questions on these forums or email me direct ([email protected]) as I am responsible for rules of the series, not the regional race directors.

 

Joe does have it right on the wheel size, your wheel size would be limited to 7" inch for a 944 spec(SP1) car in the 944 Cup.

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Posted

I apologize Dave, you are correct. The National Race Director would be a great source (duh!) but I said the regional director as that person may be more local for TOSI and will most likely be his more frequent contact.

And to be fair to the 944 cup series, face time is usually more valuable than blog time.

 

I submit this in support. I talked with Joe Paluch and Tim Comeau before going to the track, but meeting Tim reinforced the conversations. Furthermore, it was nice to put a face with the voice and meet the other drivers. In fact, I enjoyed pitting with them while I did my HPDE time, I stayed until after their last session and helped them pack up for the journey home...and I am not even in their series yet. Again, in my opinion, the people are just as important as anything else in choosing where to race.

 

I think that no matter where TOSI ends up, he will have a great series to run in.

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