National AI Advisory Board

[mwilson7]

Ryan or John,

 

Could you please provide additional details regarding the national AI advisory board which Chris C has asked if any of us would be interested in joining?

[Ryan F.]

I am not sure what he sent. We have Peder, Todd, Eric, John, Myself, and Dan (formally) that serve as a national board. We all consult together when rule issues come up.

[mwilson7]

That's what I figured.

 

Here's Chris's email:

 

"If you have an interest in picking up the AI banner as leader/liasion let us know. We have a new organizational structure for all of AI that will involve series leaders and drivers as voices on a board. This board will define the direction and character of AI in the future. That flow chart should be available within 10 days. Keep tuned."

 

I'm interested to see what you have in mind.......

[Guest]

So is it possible for a technically knowledgeable driver to become an active member of the advisory committee/rules committee. I am interested in such a position and based upon what Mr. Cobetto has previously announced it seems that now is the time to make such a step.

 

Please advise.

 

Brian Tone

[Jim P.]

I would like to be on that committee!

 

I have a little knowledge about cars, and I have knowledge of organizing events - hopefully those are two assets that will help.

[mwilson7]

Jim,

 

I thought you were spending every minute on getting your new chapter up and running. If the board is to be truly made of the people Chris mentioned then it would be nice to have a few racers who do NOT have a vested interest directly with NASA.

[Jim P.]

Mark,

You are correct!

 

I was hoping that there would be more volunteers here and I would only play a minor role.

[mwilson7]

There probably haven't been any volunteers because national (Ryan) doesn't seem to know anything about a board........

[av8ss]

mark,

i read an email recently where you were behind a new series?

 

do you have a hidden agenda with regards to tearing down the american iron series?!?!?!?

 

why should we trust anything YOU say?

[mwilson7]

av8ss,

 

I'm not asking you to trust anything I say. You can believe what you want. I am asking for more information regarding a National AI Advisory committee. It seems that we are being told things that aren't entirely true regarding what is going on. AI is a GREAT series but it appears that we are stumbling. Should it bother me that the east coast AI group get an email asking for volunteers for a National AI committee that Ryan doesn't even know about? Should it bother me that there is no one actively seeking out sponsorship for AI?

 

Bottom line is that I, like most, want AI to grow. If we are being told one thing on the east coast that the west coast knows nothing about I believe that is a cause for concern. I also posted this question here because I thought that others might be interested in joining this national advisory committee.

 

P.S. You ask why should you believe anything that I say but no one even knows who you are. You could at least sign your emails with your name and AI Region.

[Ryan F.]

Mark,

 

My response was simply that I did not know about an email sent by Chris to create something new and after reading it, I don't think that was his intended message. I simply stated that we a national board already.

 

So the reality is that you don't get the fact that we already have it in place but lost a member (Dan) because of his resignation. He will be replaced and we will move on. It is as simple as that.

 

We have been very busy running events (in fact Chris was in Los Angeles last weekend) so we don't have the time to spend every second on the internet responding to your queries. I would appreciate if you would stop trying to make me out to be the bad guy and the downfall of what ever you are unhappy with.

[mwilson7]

Ryan,

 

I'm not trying to make anyone seem like a bad guy but am looking for more information. Many of us were under the impression that there was a new advisory board being created which is why I posted the question in the first place. If you read Chris's email again you will see the word NEW which would signify some type of change from the way things are currently done.

[Guest]

So does this mean that drivers are not going to be invited to an advisory board?

[nasaracer32]

Ryan:

 

With all due respect, I don't really think that anyone is accusing you or JWL of anything or being the bad guys. Basically we have been told things and then never heard anything about it, such as this 'advisory board'. Also, there are a lot of us on the east coast that feel like we are in the dark and cannot get a straight answer from anybody about what is goin on with the series. Who will run it? What about the advisory board and what does it involve? Who do we go to over here with questions? Are the contingency guys from last year, like Cobalt, on board again this year? What contingency stickers do we have to run?

 

A lot of the aggitation goes beyond this one post. I asked questions 3 months ago that I never got answers on. I know you guys stay busy, but before we spend the time and money on this stuff, there are some things we want to know. If everything has to be run thru national, I don't think it is out of the questions for us to expect answers. If you guys are that busy, then you do need people to help. There are people willing to do that.

 

thanks

[Ryan F.]

Will,

 

The only real change is Dan's departure leading the VA region and I know Chris is looking for someone to fill that void. If you or anyone else is ready to take the lead in the East, please get with Chris. Until a week ago we (meaning National guys and even Chris) did not know of any new information. Dan has been involved in every part of communication that we had had over the off season and we assumed that that information was being passed on to his region. If that did not happen then we need to back track and fill that void. We had a 1.5 hour conference call with Dan just over a week ago and left the call feeling good about this year then the next day he emailed everyone in public saying he was stepping down. I don't want this to seem like we are airing dirty laundry but the fact is we were not notified beforehand, nor given any reasons beyond what was contained in the same email that you read. Just so everyone knows, all the NASA directors feel that Dan did a great job and applaud his efforts. We are disappointed to see him go but considering how much work it takes with little payback, we know these things happen and must pick up and move on. There has always been an AI board and we took open feedback from the racers for the 2004 rules. Again, Chris needs a leader for AI and that person will be automatically added to the AI board. As the regions grow and the series expands more individuals will likely be added as well.

 

As for the contingencies, what you see on the AIwest website is what is confirmed at this point. If it is not there then we (AI leadership) have not been notified of their support. You ask about Cobalt specifically so I will address that. The VA region guys have some sort of a deal with Carbotech and Cobalt told me that other than HC in the VA, nobody else supports the company in the east. Because of the huge contingency payouts last year with few residual sales, they decided not to offer the same program. I can't blame him and we thank Cobalt for giving us the great program last year.

 

American Iron like any other NASA series is a place for people to race and have fun. We hope the contingency programs, or anything else is simply a residual benefit but not the reason why people are racing. It seems like there has been a sentiment in some regions were certain individuals are demanding prize payouts, spectator races, support from major companies, and I have even heard mention of needing Television coverage. This is contrary to the basic philosophy of NASA which is to go out and race with friends to have a good time. We have developed contemporary rule sets that attract modern era racing cars and we want people to arrive at the track and have fun. Anything else that happens is just icing on the cake. We have worked very hard over the last 3 years to make many of our series known and the result has been some significant media coverage. This however can not continue forever and there is no reason or desire to go beyond a nice article in a magazine or small segment on a TV show. We don't want big money, 100K transporters, huge sponsored teams, and TV to arrive in this game because it will displace our true supporters which are the grassroots racers. The leaders in NASA are running the business they way we feel will benefit the majority of our racers and sometimes that is contrary to what specific individuals expect.

 

So in hopes of not sounding dismissive, we are going to continue moving forward in hopes that the racers will build cars to a great set of rules and take the car out to the track to have fun. Our events provide great staffing, fantastic diversity with your HPDE program, unmatched rule sets, and very few politics. Some may disagree with our management style that empowers the RD's and executive board to make decisions, but we fell that is what keeps politics to a minimum and gives us the efficiency to act immediately. If that is your primary goal is to have fun and enjoy the camaraderie of your friends, any NASA region welcomes you. The AI rules are out, certain contingency sponsors are posted and more *may* be added if they reply to us with a commitment. Beyond that, prepare your cars to the rules and get together with your friends to enjoy the sport of racing and have a beer at the end of the day. We really don't have anymore information that that at the present

[Guest]

There has always been an AI board and we took open feedback from the racers for the 2004 rules

 

Understanding that you took open feeback from the racers for the 2004 rules and knowing that nearly 30 drivers from the Midwest/east did not want a torque limiting rule put in place can you enlighten us as to how a torque limiting rule was adopted? I beleive that you heard straight from the racers, (I know you and JWL heard from mark and I) as well as from Dan that there was large opposition to this rule and the decision was still made.

 

The deal is done and it's in the rule book and we will follow the rules but the disconcerting thing about this situation is that it appears that the drivers wants were dismissed. Because of these types of issues there are drivers among us, myself included, that have expressed an interest joining the leadership of American Iron. It appears from this very discussion that there is little room for interested parties to move into the positions that were seemingly available as stated in Mr. Cobetto's note.

 

Any thoughts?

 

Respectfully,

 

Brian Tone

[racercosmo]

For the record, our transporter last year did not cost $100k. It didn't even cost us anything. And even if it was $100k, it would have been cheaper, and made a lot more sense than 4 pickups towing single car trailers.

I don't believe that Ryan's comment was directed towards us, but some people have the wrong idea.

[PAI Racing]

I usually only post on here to bust peoples' chops, but I have to step up and agree with Ryan. And, while I'm at it, I would like to than him, John and all the others that make NASA racing possible.

 

With the dough I spent on my Camaro, I could have bought a competitive GT-1 car. Seriously, ask my wife. I could have run SCCA nationals and maybe a selected T/A event here and there (driving skill aside). Then I'd be a big-time pro driver, as seen on SpikeTV (well at least seen every time I stuffed the car).

 

You know why I didn't do that? Because I race to have fun and to hang out with my friends. And my friends all race in NASA. I don't have the delusion that I am going to be a big time pro racer. I have a real job that I am good at and I have been able to divorce myself from my childhood dream that I am going to be the next Dan Gurney.

 

I think some of you guys who get all jacked off that this isn't some big time pro series need to get a reality check. Or, you need to take your big cars and big plans and go to Grand-Am or SpeedGT. Honestly, if you race to get paid, you should be spending all your time turning left. Your local dirt track pays more than most road racing contingecies. My point is, there are series out there already for the wanna-be pros. I think a lot of us would appreciate it if that crowd would avoid screwing up our good time.

 

Now where's my beer?

 

Sean

[Guest]

Sean, who are you directly speaking to? For the record I am not "jacked off" as you put it, that this is not a pro series I am simply trying to establish if there is an opportunity for the racers to play a larger role in the future of this series when it comes to rules making, schedule making, regional expectations and obtaining and keeping the existing contingency sponsors.

 

 

Respectfully,

 

Brian Tone

[nasaracer32]

Will,

 

we assumed that that information was being passed on to his region. If that did not happen then we need to back track and fill that void.

 

Actually, any information he had was quickly passed along and any answers I needed I quickly got. My point was that a lot of questions here get asked and never answered. A couple of months ago, I had a good conversations going with JWL and he was great about getting back to me, but when I asked him some things point blank, I never heard back from him. I know he is busy with many things in his world, as I am too with two kids and a tolerant wife, but the point is I never got an answer. And to be honest, it does sound a little like airing dirty laundry. We all know Dan did a knock out job for us, a job nobody else could have done.

 

 

 

The VA region guys have some sort of a deal with Carbotech

 

Yeah, they provide the party for the HPDE weekend and offer up a great brake product, but do not offer any AI contingency.

 

Cobalt told me that other than HC in the VA, nobody else supports the company in the east.

 

Huh???? I had the totally opposite impression. The vast majority of us, if not ALL of us, ran his stuff. He offered a great product, great service and tech, and awesome deals. I find it hard to believe they didn't want to come back on board. Since no other brake company has offered to step up, I plan to keep using Cobalt stuff becasue I have been 100% satisfied.

 

I agree with you , Ryan , in that I don't want it become a big time 'pro series like PITA Racing said some did. I can barely do it as it is, which is why I have an interest in what is being done for us in the way of sponsors and such.

[PAI Racing]

Brian,

 

My comments were an open letter addressing a composite of comments, discussion and innuendo that gets posted about this series.

 

I do think that there are people, who I don't know personally and therefore can't address directly, who tend to get a bit "Walter Mitty" about this recreational racing stuff.

 

My point was that if you want a pro series, go run one. If you are out to have a good time, then enjoy what you have. You don't see golfers lobbying the golf club for a rule change every time they play. Why should club racing be any different?

 

Sean

[nasaracer32]

And, while I'm at it, I would like to than him, John and all the others that make NASA racing possible.

Is this kind of buttering-up to the officials your idea of contingency sponsorship? We are just asking questions, not slamming Ryan or anyone else.

 

 

 

I don't have the delusion that I am going to be a big time pro racer. I have a real job that I am good at and I have been able to divorce myself from my childhood dream that I am going to be the next Dan Gurney.

 

Do you mind telling me where in this post anyone said anything about being a pro racer or making AI a pro series??

 

I think some of you guys who get all jacked off that this isn't some big time pro series need to get a reality check.

 

first off, I haven't been 'jacked off' in a while. Perhaps that is my problem. Dude, you have to be kidding me with your comments. Explain what is wrong with wanting some contingency sponsors. Why would you not be interested in making this 'hobby' more affordable. For myself, I can barely do it as it is. I will not apologize for asking questions or showing concern for something I put a lot of money into. I appreciate all the contingency sponsors and hope we will have more. From what you said, I fully expect that you will not accept any contingency winnings or any discounts on their products. That, of course, would contrdict what you were just saying. I also don't know where you run, but I guess things aren't as perfect here on the 'semi-pro' east coast as they are in your area. Oh, and nobody is trying to tear down your 'good time'.

 

Now where's my beer?

 

Normally, right now I would buy you one, but I can't. Some of my parts cost more now that the sponsors read your comments about contingency money and I don't have the extra money for your beer. Thanks.

[Ryan F.]

Will and everyone else,

 

I think some of this is getting blown out of proportion because of the lovely internet and lack of expression. You may be right about AI using Cobalt and not HC. I could be mistaken. I speak with nearly 50 people daily. I remember speaking with the owner of Cobalt in Jan and he said that very few residual sales resulted from a very expensive contingency program that he offered in 2003. He said he was going to put something together for this year and would let us know. At this point we have not heard. I may be wrong about which series supported them but the end result is the same. He has a business to run and he felt that the contingency program offered too much without enough gain on his end. I can't blame him. Contingency is supposed to sell product not support every racer.

 

Remember that contingency programs are not our responsibility. You are asking about things like they are. Contingency programs should be designed by the company making product since they are getting the sales and exposure. I am not sure people realize the task we have in running events but let me assure you that job is enough. Contingency sponsors know they are welcome to support any NASA series and there is no charge in doing so. We want them to offer the best deals to the racer. However, given that you pay between $200-300 for a race entry fee does not afford us the ability to hire a staff to manage programs which benefit other companies. I know all you care about is AI but we have nearly 40 classes. NASA is part of a family, AI is not the center of the universe. Other classes have same needs. We have contacted every contingency sponsor from previous years and asked for them to let us know if they are going to have a program. We have posted the ones that have responded. Beyond that, you as the racer should take action to call them and find out if they are going to support you. I don't know what else to say. Do you want us to go kick down their doors and force them to act? It does seem like you are saying that you need sponsorship to race. If that is the case go get it. We run safe events and provide a structure to allow people to enjoy Motorsports. That is what NASA does. I will need to sign off for a few days because I have meetings until early next week. I hope this answers some questions but I nor John will always be able to respond to every inquiry within a short time frame.

[PAI Racing]

Will,

 

I don't see continuing discussion as something that is going to be productive. I, like you, have an opinion on this matter that I feel strongly about. Obviously, our opinions differ.

 

If you ever make it to the west coast, I'll have a coldie waiting for you in my cooler.

 

Sean

[nasaracer32]

Remember that contingency programs are not our responsibility.

 

 

Ok, fair enough, but then whose responsibility is it? Seems not to long ago, I was told the single regions can't go and find their own sponsorship, that is has to go thru National. Now you are saying it isn't up to National?

 

I am not sure people realize the task we have in running events but let me assure you that job is enough.

 

I agree with you 100%. Having been involved with weekends with more a HPDE flavor, I know this is a big operation and a lot of work that is appreaciated by everyone.

 

Beyond that, you as the racer should take action to call them and find out if they are going to support you. .

If that is the case go get it. .

 

Some of us tried to and were told by 'National' that we couldn't!! So which is it... can we or can't we?? Case in point... A couple of months ago, I was asked to be the director of the SE AI series in its first year. We a had potential sponsor contact us about coming on board. I was told shortly thereafter by JWL that ALL sponsorship talk, not matter regional or national, had to go thru you guys. Ok, fine, so I forwarded the email and have no heard a single word about it since. That was over two months ago. This is someone that 'knew they were welcome to support any NASA series' (your statement) and nothing became of it. Maybe see why some of us may be frustrated with this? For the record, it was the Nonnamaker family and Phoenix Technologies that contacted Jim about this. So, please, for once and all, which is it Ryan? Can we get our own sponsors for our particular series/region (per you) or does it have to go thru National (per JWL)?

 

Out of curiousity, the full page ad the EAST COAST Honda Challenge has in the lastest issue of GRM...... do we get one? Did HC get that or the VA region? And of the 23 sponsors listed on that ad...... are they just for the East HC or National HC? Did NASA wait for all 23 to call with offers or did anyone with HC go and get them? Why can't AI do the same?