rkcarguy Posted October 28, 2006 Posted October 28, 2006 Hi everyone, I have a 1991 DX Civic Hatch I'm planning to build for H4. First what is the scoop on safety gear, like what kind of SFI/FIA ratings are required on drivers suit, seats, harness, extinguisher, ect? Also I own an engine import business and get JDM engines, the Ef series parts are pretty much long gone so I'm wondering if engines/trannys from 92+ Civics can be used in my car? If so which ones are ok which are not? A 92+ hatch would be the way to go I know but a decent shell runs alot of money around here and the EF cost me a whole $100 with no engine/trans. Just to clarify also I'm looking to race a few races a year at Mission in Canada and Pacific in Seattle, not going to be competing for the national championship or anything, just want to get out on the track and have some fun, but don't want to get bumped to some hybrid class just because I'm running on a tight budget and have to "run what I brung". Right now I have a D16Y7, D16Z6, D16Y8, and a two hydro trannys to choose from: a 93 DX or a 94 SI tranny. Any help would be appreciated. Quote
rkcarguy Posted October 28, 2006 Author Posted October 28, 2006 Just looked at my drivers suit(I raced a pro-7 mazda RX-7 in 2000-2001 SCCA)it's a SFI 3/2A/5 Pyrotect Suit..... Quote
civicrr Posted October 28, 2006 Posted October 28, 2006 Check out the rules here http://www.nasaproracing.com/rules/Honda-Challenge.pdf New NW Honda Challenge site here!! http://www.nwhondachallenge.com/ Now, the quick answer. You can only run what came in the car domestically. In other words, you must use a DX motor that would have came in the car for USA spec. If you chose to put a different motor in than what came from the factory, you will have created an Hybrid or H1 class car. You can, however, use the chassis swap rule. If you did that, you could make the car into a Si. You would have to make it identical (running gear- wise) to what a Si was. Quote
rkcarguy Posted October 29, 2006 Author Posted October 29, 2006 That's a little dissapointing, noting that "the series is designed to keep costs in control" yet I will have to find a 88-91 SI engine/trans(we only have H4 and H1 in the NWHC at this time) and probably have it rebuilt when I have several 92+ engines sitting on the rack ready to go. I did some research and by using a D16Y7 I would be down 3HP and same torque as the D16A6. I think to see this series really take off some of these rules will need to be relaxed some so more people can piece together a car cheaply without having to worry about being generation specific. Maybe consider allowing engine updating/backdating as long as the engine is equal or less HP specs than the original it's replacing? Right now it's this that decides if I can do this or not. I don't have the money to buy a EG or EK just to be generation specific on my drivetrain, and there's no reason to waste a bunch of money rebuilding a old engine/trans that will cost 2-3 times the price of a good used engine. Quote
ekim952522000 Posted October 29, 2006 Posted October 29, 2006 I think to see this series really take off some of these rules will need to be relaxed some so more people can piece together a car cheaply without having to worry about being generation specific. If you want "relaxed rules" just run H1 Quote
civicrr Posted October 29, 2006 Posted October 29, 2006 See, the problem is that you are thinking only about your situation. Try to apply your logic to all the cars in H2-H5. Now think about all the possible engine, tranny & chassis combos. Still think this will work out well? The rules have to apply to the masses. Sorry. BTW, can you think of any other series that allows you to legally swap chassis? This was done to save money. Why don't you sell some of those engines that are 'laying around' to buy the 'generation correct' one? Quote
granracing Posted October 29, 2006 Posted October 29, 2006 I think to see this series really take off some of these rules will need to be relaxed some so more people can piece together a car cheaply without having to worry about being generation specific. Maybe consider allowing engine updating/backdating as long as the engine is equal or less HP specs than the original it's replacing? Relaxing the rules would most likely make it more expensive. It would also be extremely hard to police for legality, among other factors. Think longer term or for someone who wants to build a front running car. You want to stay out of a hybrid class, but will be running a hybrid car (although maybe not to the extent of others, but it still would be one). For more relaxed rules and a run whatcha brung class, take a look at the performance touring class. Quote
JRDbuilt Posted October 29, 2006 Posted October 29, 2006 Not trying to bust your bubble or anything man. but if your having financial difficulties with putting together the car with the type of car your doing you might want to look at doing another form of motor sport. -CJ Quote
rkcarguy Posted November 2, 2006 Author Posted November 2, 2006 Ok I'm dumping the EF and I jsut got a $300 95 HB in the driveway that needs a door and rear 1/4 panel, not too big a deal for me. One question I have however, is can the equal Japan spec engine be used in this series or do I need to maybe trade someone for a USDM version? I import engines and I have a D16A VTEC(just like the D16Z6-same honda casting codes) on the shelf. It's a automatic so the cam isn't the best one but if it can be ran it'd get me up and running fairly quick. The USDM Z6 I have has 175K on it and will need a rebuild. I'm not really financially troubled just I'm building the car on a timetable to race next year and dealing with a machine shop(we have really bad engine shops here-you bring calipers and mics and check everything) would be a problem + having to break the engine in. One of my customers had to take his B16A back 3 TIMES before they finally got it right, and that was supposedly the best shop to take them to Quote
0x1 Posted November 2, 2006 Posted November 2, 2006 The best thing to do would probably be to talk to the guys in your region. Show up at an event and chat them up or find them online and introduce yourself. We have a pretty tight knit group of guys here in AZ/NV and if one of us wants to do something that will be of questionable legality to get up and going faster, we just chat it over and agree as a group. That way, there won't be any protests later on. My guess is that nobody would really care if you ran the JDM motor while you got your D16 built because when you're just starting out you'll be off pace anyway. However, it is technically illegal. The NWHC guys are all good guys. Just chat them up directly and get their opinions. - Scott Quote
rkcarguy Posted November 3, 2006 Author Posted November 3, 2006 I've talked to several of the NW HC members and most didn't care but a couple of hardcores squawked about it. This was putting the EK Y7 in the EF. We actually don't know about the equal JDM engines legality that's why I'm asking here. I have 6+ years of autocross and 2 years of roadracing so I don't expect to be that slow once I get the car setup the way I want it, so I'd like to be legal just want some clarification. Quote
ekim952522000 Posted November 3, 2006 Posted November 3, 2006 you might as well just build it legal it only takes one to protest and then all the work was for nothing. If you import engines import a more powerful d16 and then trade it for a legal one. Quote
0x1 Posted November 3, 2006 Posted November 3, 2006 Ah ... I see. If you just want clarification, then no it is not legal. The rules clearly stipulate that in H2-H5, the motor must be the USDM motor that matches the car. Any motor from another car, generation, or domestic market puts you in H1. Quote
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