XAIX Posted November 16, 2006 Posted November 16, 2006 I can’t seem to open the AI/AIX rules. What’s up? I need to pick them apart so I can harass JWL and friends about possible changes. Dana Quote
V8cobra99 Posted November 16, 2006 Posted November 16, 2006 Rules are only in draft form right now.... hold on a bit more.... dont expect big changes though.... andy Quote
Declan Posted November 16, 2006 Posted November 16, 2006 Rules are only in draft form right now.... hold on a bit more.... dont expect big changes though.... andy There's rules Quote
Ernesto Roco Posted November 16, 2006 Posted November 16, 2006 Dana, Could you please refresh my memory and tell us why your car was not deemed legal for AIX or was it? I am not sure it's been a long time. Some pics would be helpful. Thanks, E Quote
XAIX Posted November 16, 2006 Author Posted November 16, 2006 Ernesto, The shocks in the rear 3 link were attached to the rear bolt in sub-frame laid down with push rods and a rocker system. They let us run for no points and said they would be legal for 2004. I can’t open the rules so I don’t know if they are legal now. Andy, JWL, All, Here is my concern. In AIX late model Mustangs the rules allow a completely different “K-Member†Quote
pbr96 Posted November 17, 2006 Posted November 17, 2006 7.3 Frame The entire tub, floorpan, firewall, and frame assemblies including the cowl and windshield frame must remain in the stock position and cannot be relocated. “Cowl†Quote
XAIX Posted November 17, 2006 Author Posted November 17, 2006 Thanks, These rules seem to mostly pertain to cars with front to rear unit-body construction. In the case of late model cars in particular the Mustang you are allowed to completely redesign the “K-Member†Quote
trackboss Posted November 17, 2006 Posted November 17, 2006 Dana, you still trying to build that truck car? Quote
racercosmo Posted November 18, 2006 Posted November 18, 2006 Thanks, These rules seem to mostly pertain to cars with front to rear unit-body construction. In the case of late model cars in particular the Mustang you are allowed to completely redesign the “K-Member†Quote
XAIX Posted November 18, 2006 Author Posted November 18, 2006 V, Nah, that would have been just too much for the tech inspector guys to comprehend and not enough market…but someday I may build it just so when I roll it off the trailer I can listen to every one say…what the hell is that? I’ll post the car I am building on the web when the time comes so a certain some one can trash it for being “all show and no go†Quote
trackboss Posted November 18, 2006 Posted November 18, 2006 Put an "R" model badge on it and I'll drive it. How ironic would that be? Quote
racercosmo Posted November 18, 2006 Posted November 18, 2006 I would do the opposite. Run it for points until they figure it out. Quote
XAIX Posted November 18, 2006 Author Posted November 18, 2006 V, The only marking on the car will be the 265 c.i. sticker on the hood…and you’ll drive it…oh yeah, you’ll drive it. Racercosmo, Good idea…I like it…but not only did they not let us get points, but after they gave us the 3rd and 2nd place trophies at the first two races, after we won our third race at TH the guy in second place complained that he should get the trophy so they didn’t even give us the first place trophy. He was correct as our car was not technically legal and we probably shouldn’t have been given the other trophies either. We were just trying to prove a point and having a blast doing it. Quote
pederb Posted November 18, 2006 Posted November 18, 2006 Dana, You can not modify the frame rails, it does not matter if they part of the body or lose seperate unit. I see no problems with a custom or modifed k-member, but leave the frame alone. Quote
XAIX Posted November 19, 2006 Author Posted November 19, 2006 Peder, That’s my point. On the late model Mustangs all the suspension pieces bolt to the K-Member which bolts to the frame rails/unit-body. The first generation Camaro does not have a K-Member and is not unit-body from the firewall forward. AIX cars must have OEM shock towers in place and resemble the factory build, but attachment points are free. The shock towers may be modified to facilitate suspension component fitment (i.e. SLA, etc) but must retain the general shape, structure and location as stock. The rules as written don’t fit the Camaro design very well. You can’t leave the “shock towers†Quote
trackboss Posted November 19, 2006 Posted November 19, 2006 Dana I'm ready whenever you are. Let's roll! I agree on the framerail thing. The GM cars of the late '60's early 70's have front subframes that bolt on so they should be allowed to have replacements within reason just like the mustangs. There is already at least on mfg that makes a complete replacement, but I am not sure hwo well the design is thought out. Looks good, but that's all I can say. Heck, the early mustangs don't have k-frames yet it is legal to weld one on and race it in AI. Quote
nape Posted November 19, 2006 Posted November 19, 2006 Peder, That’s my point. On the late model Mustangs all the suspension pieces bolt to the K-Member which bolts to the frame rails/unit-body. The first generation Camaro does not have a K-Member and is not unit-body from the firewall forward. AIX cars must have OEM shock towers in place and resemble the factory build, but attachment points are free. The shock towers may be modified to facilitate suspension component fitment (i.e. SLA, etc) but must retain the general shape, structure and location as stock. The rules as written don’t fit the Camaro design very well. You can’t leave the “shock towers†Quote
XAIX Posted November 19, 2006 Author Posted November 19, 2006 V, I can name 4 or 5 companies that make revised front clips for first generation Camaros none of which use stock shock mounts. One of them uses C-5 Corvette components. None of them however have paid much attention to control arm length, upper VS lower control arm length ratios, swing arm length, scrub radius, caster, roll center height, roll axis, ackerman etc. All they talk about is “improved camber gain†Quote
XAIX Posted November 20, 2006 Author Posted November 20, 2006 TJ, Almost all if not all of the AIX cars are Mustangs with unit-body construction. The K-Member which bolts to the frame rails (which are part of the unit-body) has been redesigned with a clean sheet of paper by many aftermarket companies to the point that they no longer use the McPherson struts that come stock but now use SLA (short-long Arm…the proper term is unequal length control arms) systems. The frame rails on Mustangs have nothing to do with the suspension. On early Camaros the suspension is connected directly to the frame rails. Allowing the complete redesign of the K-Member on Mustangs is no different than allowing the complete redesign of the front frame clip on early Camaros. Quote
nape Posted November 20, 2006 Posted November 20, 2006 Ahhh, OK. I didn't know you were talking about a 1st or 2nd gen where you could actually unbolt the front subframe. I understand you can move pickup points and everything else with a K-member, but you are still limited by the original width and depth of the frame rails and surrounding front sheet metal that you have to attach the K-member to. The frame rails may not have any pickup points, but by not being able to notch/move them you restrict where you can mount the pickup points (ex. wanting to move the upper arm inward but you can't because it's already almost mounting to the frame rail). So, you're talking about starting completely from scratch (tube subframe)? Quote
XAIX Posted November 20, 2006 Author Posted November 20, 2006 No I’m actually building a clip that is similar to the stock except that it uses stronger nicer box tubing and will be TIG welded. It does have the forward tubes kicked in for wheel clearance but not much due to clearance for the engine accessories etc. There is a wheel limitation in AIX anyway and you can always go out with flares. I doubt that you can move the frame rails on a Mustang in very much for the same reasons. It is intended for street applications also so a tube frame is not really practical. There is a tube frame clip on the market but due to accessories like brake master cylinders etc it is severely limited in where the tubing can go. Although they state that it is “stiffer than stock†Quote
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