bbyevo Posted December 9, 2006 Share Posted December 9, 2006 Sure it can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludachris Posted December 9, 2006 Share Posted December 9, 2006 Hmmm. This could really hurt my plans this coming season. I hope we can get some clarification about boost controllers, because this would be a killer to all those with older turbo cars - great cars for this type of competition I might add. Many of the DSM folks that I've been trying to steer in NASA's direction are now going to be turned away it seems. Chris 91 Eclipse GSX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warrtalon Posted December 9, 2006 Share Posted December 9, 2006 Sure it can. How can it? There is no setting in the ECU that can randomly raise the boost to something like 26psi. The way tuners do this currently is by changing the restrictor pills in the lines. Even in stock form, the only way the ECU "controls" the boost at 19-20psi peak is through the use of those restrictor pills. Take one of the two out, and you'll see base wastegate pressure (11psi). Keep that one in and take the other one out, and you'll see erratic boost with a higher peak of 23psi or so. Our ECU does NOT directly control boost levels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warrtalon Posted December 9, 2006 Share Posted December 9, 2006 Hmmm. This could really hurt my plans this coming season. I hope we can get some clarification about boost controllers, because this would be a killer to all those with older turbo cars - great cars for this type of competition I might add. Many of the DSM folks that I've been trying to steer in NASA's direction are now going to be turned away it seems. Chris 91 Eclipse GSX Chris, what do you mean? I still don't think there's any big controversy with boost controllers. I only saw it mentioned as a concern with making sure people don't race at one power level, then downward adjust the power when put on a dyno afterwards to the verify wt/hp ratio (if that occurs). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbyevo Posted December 9, 2006 Share Posted December 9, 2006 There are several people running 22-25+ psi with the stock BCS. There isn't one setting, rather the manipulation of several tables to raise the boost level and reduce taper and spiking. Sure it can. How can it? There is no setting in the ECU that can randomly raise the boost to something like 26psi. The way tuners do this currently is by changing the restrictor pills in the lines. Even in stock form, the only way the ECU "controls" the boost at 19-20psi peak is through the use of those restrictor pills. Take one of the two out, and you'll see base wastegate pressure (11psi). Keep that one in and take the other one out, and you'll see erratic boost with a higher peak of 23psi or so. Our ECU does NOT directly control boost levels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warrtalon Posted December 9, 2006 Share Posted December 9, 2006 There are several people running 22-25+ psi with the stock BCS. There isn't one setting, rather the manipulation of several tables to raise the boost level and reduce taper and spiking. I have not encountered any of these people nor seen it claimed. It has only been done in the past (and present) with boost hose modification, not through tables, although you can REDUCE the taper through the ECU tables. Otherwise, there would be no restrictor pills in the stock system - Mitsu would have just set these tables to make the boost peak at 20psi and taper to 16psi. Not sure how these people you reference are suddnely able to make it run 25psi with the restrictor pills in place just from manipulating those tables unless they learned something that all the top tuners haven't been able to figure out over the last 3 years. Is that the case? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hagakure Posted December 10, 2006 Share Posted December 10, 2006 I think I'll be setting up the ecu to handle boost control duties and ditching the mbc before the season starts. I'm still in TTA, with a little room for some changes. I don't run an MBC on my Evo. IT's all set through the ecutek tune. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbyevo Posted December 10, 2006 Share Posted December 10, 2006 Warr, this is a discussion for another board or PM's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludachris Posted December 10, 2006 Share Posted December 10, 2006 Hmmm. This could really hurt my plans this coming season. I hope we can get some clarification about boost controllers, because this would be a killer to all those with older turbo cars - great cars for this type of competition I might add. Many of the DSM folks that I've been trying to steer in NASA's direction are now going to be turned away it seems. Chris 91 Eclipse GSX Chris, what do you mean? I still don't think there's any big controversy with boost controllers. I only saw it mentioned as a concern with making sure people don't race at one power level, then downward adjust the power when put on a dyno afterwards to the verify wt/hp ratio (if that occurs). As long as my boost controller doesn't automatically throw me (and everyone else with boost controllers) into TTR, that's fine. When I read that rule it seemed to me that a boost controller would do just that. Since it could be seen as a system that can raise and lower horsepower levels. If that's not the case, then I'm good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
National Staff Greg G. Posted December 12, 2006 National Staff Share Posted December 12, 2006 7) Vehicles may not use any systems from the start of competition through the end of the final post-run session inspection that allow adjustment of horsepower levels that would serve to alter Dyno readings. Uhhh..... I got a 3rd. gen rx7. How exactly am I supposed to controll my boost with out a boost controller??? Dazed and confused. Definately NOT stoned just incredibly stupid perhaps! -M PS Thanks for the 2007 rules link, I think. Yes, you can have a boost controller. But, you cannot adjust it during the times listed in the rules (during competition). In fact, it should be sealed during competition for your protection from anyone trying to claim that you are altering your boost levels above what is legal based on your re-classification. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
National Staff Greg G. Posted December 12, 2006 National Staff Share Posted December 12, 2006 Seems the 3rd gen RX7s are destined to be surpressed by any means possible. As usual, rules would to appear at least for my car, to put me just over TTS and nowhere near what TTU can be. Anybody got a long rope, gun, pills, anything. I am ready to end it now! -M Use ballast or your boost controller to increase your weight or decrease your power to get into a competitive situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
National Staff Greg G. Posted December 12, 2006 National Staff Share Posted December 12, 2006 Not that I would disagree seeing as many TT cars are as fast or faster than almost all race cars in NASA, do I understand the must comply with all CCR rules to mean what I think it means?? In other words seperate from HPDE TECH rules of the past? Again, NOT stoned just incredibly stupid perhaps. -M The HPDE tech rules are what the CCR calls for. It's the same as before. But, if you have a cage, it needs to comply with the CCR rules for cages (same as before). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
National Staff Greg G. Posted December 12, 2006 National Staff Share Posted December 12, 2006 Hmmm. This could really hurt my plans this coming season. I hope we can get some clarification about boost controllers, because this would be a killer to all those with older turbo cars - great cars for this type of competition I might add. Many of the DSM folks that I've been trying to steer in NASA's direction are now going to be turned away it seems. Chris 91 Eclipse GSX The rule just means that once the car is prepped, and the wt/hp level is classed (speaking about aftermarket turbos, swaps, TTS/TTU cars, etc.), you can't start changing settings that would alter Dyno readings. You can still have the boost controller on the car--just can't touch it after you start competition. We need to know that during each competition session, the car was the same, and if we choose to Dyno you after the last session, that the car is the same as it was during the first session. This is why we sealed OBD ports, boost controllers, etc. at the Championships. For those cars that could legally adjust those items, we had them come to us, and tell use they wanted to change something, and then we re-sealed it. That way if we wanted to Dyno the car before the change was made, we had the opportunity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warrtalon Posted December 12, 2006 Share Posted December 12, 2006 Hmmm. This could really hurt my plans this coming season. I hope we can get some clarification about boost controllers, because this would be a killer to all those with older turbo cars - great cars for this type of competition I might add. Many of the DSM folks that I've been trying to steer in NASA's direction are now going to be turned away it seems. Chris 91 Eclipse GSX The rule just means that once the car is prepped, and the wt/hp level is classed (speaking about aftermarket turbos, swaps, TTS/TTU cars, etc.), you can't start changing settings that would alter Dyno readings. You can still have the boost controller on the car--just can't touch it after you start competition. We need to know that during each competition session, the car was the same, and if we choose to Dyno you after the last session, that the car is the same as it was during the first session. This is why we sealed OBD ports, boost controllers, etc. at the Championships. For those cars that could legally adjust those items, we had them come to us, and tell use they wanted to change something, and then we re-sealed it. That way if we wanted to Dyno the car before the change was made, we had the opportunity. Excellent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted December 12, 2006 Share Posted December 12, 2006 the whole sealing thing was well executed at Nationals imho Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GooRoo Posted December 12, 2006 Share Posted December 12, 2006 Seems the 3rd gen RX7s are destined to be surpressed by any means possible. As usual, rules would to appear at least for my car, to put me just over TTS and nowhere near what TTU can be. Anybody got a long rope, gun, pills, anything. I am ready to end it now! -M Yeah, it might be a bit rough for us (I also have a FD) but it is a better situation than last year. TTU was the only real option last year for ported/single turbo modded FD's and we all know what crazy cars ended up being in there. (I was at nationals with the motto 'anything but last' and had a great time.) Now at least we have the option of de-tuning a bit and running in a class where we have a decent chance to be near the top as opposed to no chance. I do this for fun, and it's definitely fun to believe you have a chance. If you want to discuss FD's classing as it relates to TT/PT, pm me. I'm trying to decide what I'm going to do for next season... and I've been running the numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludachris Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 Exactly what is "sealing" and how is it executed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warrtalon Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 Exactly what is "sealing" and how is it executed? Open MBC, fill with concrete, close MBC = sealed! Probably tape or some tamper indicator that keeps you from removing it or changing the MBC without breaking the "seal," eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted December 18, 2006 Share Posted December 18, 2006 they used this red tamper tape and taped up the knobs, attachment points, etc so you'd have to break the tape to adjust the level or remove it. you could change your boost levels, but you'd have to go to tech and let them know you were doing it so they can re-tape you or dyno you before you do it to check for compliance doubtful you'll see it at a regional level event, but at Nationals..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FocusTed Posted December 18, 2006 Share Posted December 18, 2006 the whole sealing thing was well executed at Nationals imho No it didn't work very well. Some cars you can flash the ECU through the OBD Port (like the Focus). For some reason, they taped my Spec Focus' ECU unit and left the OBD Port open, and we reflashed the unit the whole time during the event, mainly because we were running too rich and change the octane. Now, since in TT the car ran under the Spec Focus Rules, We're able to do that anyways, because we can reflash all Zetec cars in SF. But, I had to laugh when they taped the ECU on the Foci. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted December 18, 2006 Share Posted December 18, 2006 well, you were supposed to get both ports sealed... way to go tech! (<--- doesn't have to deal with this sealing BS) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Shawn M. Posted December 18, 2006 Members Share Posted December 18, 2006 Now, since in TT the car ran under the Spec Focus Rules, We're able to do that anyways, because we can reflash all Zetec cars in SF. But, I had to laugh when they taped the ECU on the Foci. Not that it mattered for TT. We ran that car with 21hp less that we should have...... Seems the new car owner figured that out pretty quick! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FocusTed Posted December 19, 2006 Share Posted December 19, 2006 Now, since in TT the car ran under the Spec Focus Rules, We're able to do that anyways, because we can reflash all Zetec cars in SF. But, I had to laugh when they taped the ECU on the Foci. Not that it mattered for TT. We ran that car with 21hp less that we should have...... Seems the new car owner figured that out pretty quick! Adding Adjustable Cams, bigger Throttle Body, Injectors and a good tune will do that. LOL Think of how well we would have done with that setup??? oh well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
National Staff Greg G. Posted December 19, 2006 National Staff Share Posted December 19, 2006 Yes, today is the actual Big Day--Look for the revised rules and PT rules posted now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Shawn M. Posted December 23, 2006 Members Share Posted December 23, 2006 Yes, today is the actual Big Day--Look for the revised rules and PT rules posted now. Does this mean there wont be any major rule changes from now til next year? (I understand there will be cars being continuously added as well as motor swaps being classed ect.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.