07' rule questions.... clarifications....

[Shawn M.]

I know people will have lots of questions or the need to have things explained. I know I do.

 

Such as:

 

In the classification part, a class given stars such as TTF**. Are the stars still 7 points each? I couldnt find that definition anywhere in the section.

 

Thats it for now. Feel free to post up your Q's here..........

[roadracetransam]

look under 6.1 on page 5. BIG, BOLD letters in the middle of the page

[Shawn M.]

look under 6.1 on page 5. BIG, BOLD letters in the middle of the page

 

 

Thats a good place for it....

 

Seems like it should be 6.3.3. Thats where I was looking for it.

[cosm3os]

Does the "freebie" for radio removal inlcude all component parts (head unit, amp, speakers)?

 

Any charge for removing the OBC on my car (don't need the weight is nominal, but I can get decent money for it!!!!) It's the same size as the head unit.

 

Does the point for removing the trunk carpet allow me to gut the trunk (there's some other plastic crap in there)?

Edited December 9, 2006 by Guest

[heeltoer]

clarification about fuel pump #25

Non-OEM or modified carburetor, fuel rail, fuel injectors, fuel pump and/or fuel pressure regulator +2 (no points for fuel pump along if using OEM fuel and timing maps, sensor inputs and ignition timing).

 

The part about no points, does that mean I have to be using all 3 of those things in order to be charged 2 points? E.g. Fuel and timing maps, ignition timing are modified but snesor inputs are not, will this result in +2?

 

Thanks greg.

[heeltoer]

I know people will have lots of questions or the need to have things explained. I know I do.

 

Such as:

 

In the classification part, a class given stars such as TTF**. Are the stars still 7 points each? I couldnt find that definition anywhere in the section.

 

Thats it for now. Feel free to post up your Q's here..........

 

One note about **, its now 14 points as opposed to 15 pts in 2006. Finally some parity.

[zuperdave]

Geez, what have I done to anger the Time Trial gods?

 

Fortyfive points tacked onto my pokey little Civic, 14 of them (**) just for showing up? I was already 4-5 seconds slower (make that "less fast") than the fastest cars in TTF, now you're gonna kill me in TTE unless everyone else moves up.

 

I suppose the saving grace is that I have a lot more headroom before I get bumped up again... Looks like I will have to dig for the $$$ for more go-fast parts.

[fast_frank_d]

Why is relocating the battery +1 if ballast is free?

 

I think the +1 assessment made sense with last year's 30lb limit ballast rule because relocating a 40lb battery exceeds the 30lb limit. However, now that 150lbs of ballast is free, I think NASA should reconsider the logic behind the +1 assessment.

 

By relocating the battery, you are essentially adding 10lbs of ballast to the middle of the car and 40lbs to the rear of the car. All of this would be free of charge if it were made of steel instead of copper and lead.

 

Can NASA reconsider this point assessment or explain the difference?

 

Frank D.

Edited December 10, 2006 by Guest

[Shawn M.]

By relocating the battery, you are essentially adding 10lbs of ballast to the middle of the car and 40lbs to the rear of the car. All of this would be free of charge if it were made of steel instead of copper and lead.

 

Can NASA reconsider this point assessment or explain the difference?

 

Frank D.

 

 

And along the lines of weight, as of the base weight, is that with or without AC?

Becuase if its free to remove it, then why are we penalized for the weight we took out of the car? Thats another 70lbs in my car.

Edited December 11, 2006 by Guest

[daveh]

Hi there, I've got a couple of questions too:

 

The first is about #7 under the suspension rules. It states 'Replace or modify control arms (other than plates, shims, slots, or eccentric bolt/busings for simple camber/caster adjustment only).

My car like many other japanese cars has wishbone suspension and can only get camber adjustment through aftermarket upper control arms. I know camber is free this year so am I adding these 4 points for my control arms which adjust my camber?

 

My second question is about my aftermarket differential. The 350Z has many different models, all of which are in the same base class. Some come with LSD's and some do not. Mine does not. Do I have to go with rule #35 Added limited slip differential +3, or #36 Changed or modified limited slip differential (or welded/locked OEM LSD) +1. My clutch diff is in the OEM housing assembly.

 

thanks Greg, the rules look great!

[MrEvoMan]

Ok, just to make sure I got 2 things right, please answer me this:

 

I have a set of BuddyClub Coilovers (retail for $1995, so under $650 each). They are only 1 way adjustable.

 

Does that mean I get +3 for the struts and +2 for the springs? That it?

 

I also have a different front lip on the car. It really has no aero purpose to it, although kinda looks like a splitter. It sticks out no more than 2" from the furthest. Is that only a +1 splitter modification point?

 

Thanks!

[RAFTRACER]

Greg,

Does the competition wieght in TT U,S,R and ST1, ST2 include the driver??? In the grid box for the +/- adjustments it doesn't stipulate.....Later in some description it says including drivers wieght......Clarification please, I know you probably wont answer since you are racing (lucky dog)

[zuperdave]

Ok, just to make sure I got 2 things right, please answer me this:

 

I have a set of BuddyClub Coilovers (retail for $1995, so under $650 each). They are only 1 way adjustable.

 

Does that mean I get +3 for the struts and +2 for the springs? That it?

Ditto for Tokiko Illumina 5-way adjustable coilovers: +3 for the struts, plus separate +2 for the springs is the way I read it.

[RAFTRACER]

Greg,

Does the competition wieght in TT U,S,R and ST1, ST2 include the driver??? In the grid box for the +/- adjustments it doesn't stipulate.....Later in some description it says including drivers wieght......Clarification please, I know you probably wont answer since you are racing (lucky dog)

 

Sorry, found my answer......somehow I missed 6.2.4

[Neon2dmaX]

Maybe I missed it... light weight flywheels are now free? Regarding brakes: points are assessed for calipers only?

 

Ahh... found it: freebies 25 and 28.

[Robispec]

Camber plates are now free too?

[IGZOSTD]

Ok Greg , I have a question also . This year I was told you use 3450lbs as the OEM wt. of on 06 Mustang GT . I had my car checked by the NASA scales , and it came in at 3400lbs . That is without spair and jack, rear carpet , no cat. converters and dot slicks and a 1/2 tank of fuel. which seams to be right . I might be reading somthing wrong but it looks like you ar now using 3356 as the OEM wt. for 07 rules

Whats Up .My car didn't lose 94lbs sitting in my shop waiting for Febuary. I think this causes a problem as these numbers are not correct . I think we need to start off with some correct numbers . I think these might be the wts for the 6 cyc. base model .The power to wt. is 11.5:1 not 11:1 .

Thanks for checking into this .

[Neon2dmaX]

per TT rules at 6.4.1

ROLL BARS/CAGES:

"A 4-point roll bar or basic 6-point roll cage constructed per the NASA CCR’s may be added without a TT modification point’s assessment. A transverse horizontal bar at or under the dashboard is also permitted without assessment."

 

per NASA CCR's

"15.6.12 Door Bars / Side Impact Protection

At least one (1) door bar on driver side and one (1) on the passenger side must be used.

At least two (2) door bars on the driver side and one (1) door bar on the passenger side must be installed in all vehicles that obtain a new logbook after January 1st, 2007."

 

Be sure to note CCR's at 15.6.22: a seatback brace may be required irrespective of whether a roll bar or cage is installed.

 

It seems to me that an exception to the 2 side door bar rule applicble to roll cages should be allowed for TT competition, particularly since TT does not require any cage. If the purpose is to encourage the installation of safety equipment such as roll bars, requiring 2 side door bars seems contrary to that goal.

[Neon2dmaX]

Camber plates are now free too?

 

Freebie no. 12: "12) Simple camber, caster, and toe adjustment by any method that does not alter suspension mounting points (unless the modification used is otherwise assessed points above)."

[fast_frank_d]

If I install an aftermarket MAF that is calibrated for my aftermarket fuel injectors, do I have to take the +1 for "altered sensor inputs"? I have no idea what a "voltage clamp" is, but I don't think an off-the-shelf MAF has that. I would already be taking the +2 for non-OEM fuel injectors.

 

Any thoughts?

 

Frank D.

[Shawn M.]

If I install an aftermarket MAF that is calibrated for my aftermarket fuel injectors, do I have to take the +1 for "altered sensor inputs"? I have no idea what a "voltage clamp" is, but I don't think an off-the-shelf MAF has that. I would already be taking the +2 for non-OEM fuel injectors.

 

Any thoughts?

 

Frank D.

 

My thought is YES, take the points since taking points is what the new rules are all about! (cept for the freebie mods.)

[PtBy]

What is the process on cars with aftermarket turbos? Since I'm running a larger turbo on the 1.8T it needs to be dyno'd this year for the first time. So the car goes to the dyno and lets say it pulls 250WHP instead of its OEM 150HP. Then it's given a new base class, correct? Then all other mods are added to the base class to detemine the final class?

 

Is there any guidelines such as a hp/wt ratio or anything that can be used to see before hand where a car might end up classed? I'd like to keep it in TTD again this year.

[StealthTT]

What is the process on cars with aftermarket turbos? Since I'm running a larger turbo on the 1.8T it needs to be dyno'd this year for the first time. So the car goes to the dyno and lets say it pulls 250WHP instead of its OEM 150HP. Then it's given a new base class, correct? Then all other mods are added to the base class to detemine the final class?

 

Is there any guidelines such as a hp/wt ratio or anything that can be used to see before hand where a car might end up classed? I'd like to keep it in TTD again this year.

 

I'd love to know the framework for the re-calssification. I'm really surprised they didn't put it in the rules.

 

Greg Greenbaum has said in other threads that you would be assessed a new class based on your new weight to power ratio and no points would be assessed for the mods to get you there.

 

http://www.nasaforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=75772&highlight=#75772

Yes, Power to weight ratio is used for TTS and TTU, as well as getting a new base class for turbo swaps or modification, motor swaps, and hybrid engines. For TTA-TTF, once we go to a dyno test and the scales, there is no reason to assess points for engine or weight mods. We still will assess points for the rest of the mods, though.

 

So Greg, what's the weight to power ratios for each class? We're two months into modding season and we still can't form a plan, let alone order parts, install, tune, and dyno.

 

p.s. Thanks for all your work. Time is just such a frustrating mistress.

[JCraven]

What is the process on cars with aftermarket turbos? Since I'm running a larger turbo on the 1.8T it needs to be dyno'd this year for the first time. So the car goes to the dyno and lets say it pulls 250WHP instead of its OEM 150HP. Then it's given a new base class, correct? Then all other mods are added to the base class to detemine the final class?

 

Is there any guidelines such as a hp/wt ratio or anything that can be used to see before hand where a car might end up classed? I'd like to keep it in TTD again this year.

 

I'd love to know the framework for the re-calssification. I'm really surprised they didn't put it in the rules.

 

Greg Greenbaum has said in other threads that you would be assessed a new class based on your new weight to power ratio and no points would be assessed for the mods to get you there.

 

http://www.nasaforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=75772&highlight=#75772

Yes, Power to weight ratio is used for TTS and TTU, as well as getting a new base class for turbo swaps or modification, motor swaps, and hybrid engines. For TTA-TTF, once we go to a dyno test and the scales, there is no reason to assess points for engine or weight mods. We still will assess points for the rest of the mods, though.

 

So Greg, what's the weight to power ratios for each class? We're two months into modding season and we still can't form a plan, let alone order parts, install, tune, and dyno.

 

p.s. Thanks for all your work. Time is just such a frustrating mistress.

 

My guess would be that the reclassed car's engine would then have to be sealed, meaning that any further engine mods would require that the car be redynoed and then reclassed. The suspension/aero/weight mods as an example would be points.

[StealthTT]

 

My guess would be that the reclassed car's engine would then have to be sealed, meaning that any further engine mods would require that the car be redynoed and then reclassed.

 

No need to guess. In section 6.4.2:

 

"All competitors will be required to include the latest certified Dyno report and minimum weight in their vehicle logbook at all times. Any subsequent modifications or adjustments done to the car that could alter power output will require repeat Dyno testing, and a new certified Dyno report."

 

The suspension/aero/weight mods as an example would be points.

 

I cannot find where the rules stipulate that the points needed to make the power or weight are no longer assessed although Greg said it several times on this forum. Unfortunately his post on this forum is not an official rule.