RW Posted January 21, 2007 Share Posted January 21, 2007 Can I put my "harness bar" for my camera mount between the rear shock towers? It gives a much better camera angle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
National Staff Greg G. Posted January 21, 2007 National Staff Share Posted January 21, 2007 Ok, we are going to go with wording similar to this in the upcoming Rules revision to include all of the '07 model base classes (should be out within a few days): Under No-Points Modifications: Harness Bar--must be a single bar, in a vehicle that does not have a full cage or roll bar, placed between the "B pillars" of the vehicle at a height suitable to comply with the CCR harness rules. The bar must be used to anchor or guide occupant harness restraints. If it is not used for occupant restraints +1 point will be assessed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosm3os Posted January 21, 2007 Share Posted January 21, 2007 Aren't we encouraging an unsafe condition here--it's a big no no to run 5 or 6 pt harnesses without a roll bar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Shawn M. Posted January 21, 2007 Author Members Share Posted January 21, 2007 Aren't we encouraging an unsafe condition here--it's a big no no to run 5 or 6 pt harnesses without a roll bar. Only if you are using a race seat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosm3os Posted January 21, 2007 Share Posted January 21, 2007 Race seat or not, it's not safe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Shawn M. Posted January 21, 2007 Author Members Share Posted January 21, 2007 Race seat or not, it's not safe. Really? I love safety experts. Please explain to the rest of the kids exactly how its not safe, as approved by the NASA CCR? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racercosmo Posted January 21, 2007 Share Posted January 21, 2007 With a true race seat, (IE one piece) I wouldn't think it's as bad. With a sport seat, (reclineable, Recaro SRD or such) I would worry about the seat being knocked rearward and being folded, along with the occupant, as it passed under the harness bar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racercosmo Posted January 21, 2007 Share Posted January 21, 2007 Is a Tornado fuel saver in the intake a points modification? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
National Staff Greg G. Posted January 21, 2007 National Staff Share Posted January 21, 2007 Is a Tornado fuel saver in the intake a points modification? Yes, it would be an air intake modification for +1. However, I've "heard" that they don't perform as advertised. I'd be interested to hear if anyone here has actually tried one before and after dyno testing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racercosmo Posted January 21, 2007 Share Posted January 21, 2007 Is a Tornado fuel saver in the intake a points modification? Yes, it would be an air intake modification for +1. However, I've "heard" that they don't perform as advertised. I'd be interested to hear if anyone here has actually tried one before and after dyno testing. Actually, I was joking about it. One of my students was changing the air filter assembly on his car and found one in there. We threw it away immediately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLZ_Boy Posted January 22, 2007 Share Posted January 22, 2007 Ok, we are going to go with wording similar to this in the upcoming Rules revision to include all of the '07 model base classes (should be out within a few days): Under No-Points Modifications: Harness Bar--must be a single bar, in a vehicle that does not have a full cage or roll bar, placed between the "B pillars" of the vehicle at a height suitable to comply with the CCR harness rules. The bar must be used to anchor or guide occupant harness restraints. If it is not used for occupant restraints +1 point will be assessed. Thanks for the clarification. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosm3os Posted January 22, 2007 Share Posted January 22, 2007 Race seat or not, it's not safe. Really? I love safety experts. Please explain to the rest of the kids exactly how its not safe, as approved by the NASA CCR? Don't claim to be an expert, but I am conscious. With respect to rollovers, street cars' structures are designed to perform with 3pt restraints and street seats. Start mixing "race" safety stuff in their and you are may be creating a dangerous cocktail. I, personally, won't run harnesses with a race seat without a roll bar. I would prefer not to be the tallest thing in the car in a rollover. Maybe a race seat without a bar is safe, but that wasn't stated in the original responses. There's a lot of naive guys out there that think it's cool to have a harness bar and harnesses, but have not considered the deadly consequences that can have. I doubt a guy who has a bar is just going to run a camera on it--he's likely to use harnesses too and he should know what he's getting into. Finally, to 8v, I don't believe it is appropriate to bully folks on the forums, particularly when safety is the issue being discussed. I agree there are a lot of myths out there, but that doesn't mean it's good to poo-poo someone offering good information (I may be more cautious than you, but I'm not giving information that would put the guy at greater risk). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
National Staff Greg G. Posted January 22, 2007 National Staff Share Posted January 22, 2007 There is no mention of harness bars in the CCR that I could find. I have asked NASA for a clarification on the use of harness bars. I know that in the past, most tech. inspectors have ok'd their use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Shawn M. Posted January 22, 2007 Author Members Share Posted January 22, 2007 Finally, to 8v, I don't believe it is appropriate to bully folks on the forums, particularly when safety is the issue being discussed. I agree there are a lot of myths out there, but that doesn't mean it's good to poo-poo someone offering good information (I may be more cautious than you, but I'm not giving information that would put the guy at greater risk). I didnt poo-poo anything. I simply "bullied" you to expand on your thought to allow someone who is "not-in-the-know" better understand WHY you made your comment. I agree with you and the reasons you mentioned. Im just the Devils part time mechanic..... and Gregs X-crewchief! Too many people say open ended comments here and then dont follow as to WHY so that people can learn or better understand from it. Thats my only intention to my reply and hey look, it worked! My "safety expert" comment was meant as a compliment, BTW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryM05 Posted January 22, 2007 Share Posted January 22, 2007 Hi there, I've got a couple of questions too: [sNIP] My second question is about my aftermarket differential. The 350Z has many different models, all of which are in the same base class. Some come with LSD's and some do not. Mine does not. Do I have to go with rule #35 Added limited slip differential +3, or #36 Changed or modified limited slip differential (or welded/locked OEM LSD) +1. My clutch diff is in the OEM housing assembly. thanks Greg, the rules look great! [sNIP] Technically, all of the 350Z's that are not listed separately (Track, GT, Anniversary) must take +3 for LSD, since the base model didn't have one. I'm considering a waiver for the 350Z on LSD's, and running it past NASA for input. I agree with the argument that the 350Z's all really have LSD's, and that the base model for this high performance, high base class car, was a low-ball attempt by the manufacturer to sell more cars. I'll let you know what happens with this. Greg - any updates on the above-mentioned waiver for the 350Z factory LSD? I own one of the 3 non-Track models that came from the factory with the LSD standard (no option to add or remove it from the model). I ask because the points for this have the potential to move me up a class, by a single point. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLZ_Boy Posted January 23, 2007 Share Posted January 23, 2007 There is no mention of harness bars in the CCR that I could find. I have asked NASA for a clarification on the use of harness bars. I know that in the past, most tech. inspectors have ok'd their use. I had another curious question that poped in my head. If the harness bars is used to anchor or guide the occupant harness restraints and a non-OEM seat is used, does one incur the +1 point for using a non-OEM seat? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
National Staff Greg G. Posted January 23, 2007 National Staff Share Posted January 23, 2007 Greg - any updates on the above-mentioned waiver for the 350Z factory LSD? I own one of the 3 non-Track models that came from the factory with the LSD standard (no option to add or remove it from the model). I ask because the points for this have the potential to move me up a class, by a single point. You are a month behind. We took care of that when we added the Enthusiast Model to the listing in the same model group so that the LSD could be free. It is permitted in this case to update the LSD to the Enthusiast trim model LSD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
National Staff Greg G. Posted January 23, 2007 National Staff Share Posted January 23, 2007 There is no mention of harness bars in the CCR that I could find. I have asked NASA for a clarification on the use of harness bars. I know that in the past, most tech. inspectors have ok'd their use. I had another curious question that poped in my head. If the harness bars is used to anchor or guide the occupant harness restraints and a non-OEM seat is used, does one incur the +1 point for using a non-OEM seat? Yes, you still take the point for non-OEM seat unless you have a roll cage or roll bar. You get the lighter seat for free when you put in the heavy safety item (cage, roll bar). But, the way the rules are written now, with so much free weight reduction using the alternate method, I'd be surprised if many cars should be using the points method anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryM05 Posted January 23, 2007 Share Posted January 23, 2007 Greg - any updates on the above-mentioned waiver for the 350Z factory LSD? I own one of the 3 non-Track models that came from the factory with the LSD standard (no option to add or remove it from the model). I ask because the points for this have the potential to move me up a class, by a single point. You are a month behind. We took care of that when we added the Enthusiast Model to the listing in the same model group so that the LSD could be free. It is permitted in this case to update the LSD to the Enthusiast trim model LSD OK, thanks for your quick response (definitely not the first time I've missed something and been behind). I saw that note in the base classifications, but couldn't quite tell if it pertained to all of the non-Base, non-Track models from '03 (Enthusiast, Performance, and Touring), or just the Enthusiast model. Call me dense, but I want to make sure that I understand: the stock LSD on a non-Track model, '03 350Z (Performance model, in this case) is free...do I have that right? Thanks for your help and patience in navigating the rules...it's a MUCH better ruleset than what I competed under in TT with 'that other club' a few years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
National Staff Greg G. Posted January 23, 2007 National Staff Share Posted January 23, 2007 Call me dense, but I want to make sure that I understand: the stock LSD on a non-Track model, '03 350Z (Performance model, in this case) is free...do I have that right? Yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markus Posted January 24, 2007 Share Posted January 24, 2007 Hello Greg - I have another question regarding factory performance packages, similar to the 350Z stuff discussed.... From '94-'97 Mazda made an R Package Miata with different springs, shocks, front sway bar, front lip spoiler, rear trunk spoiler and lighter alloy rims. Since the Miata R Package is not listed as a different line item, does that mean that all '94-'97 Miatas can update/backdate to the above parts? For what it's worth - I doubt anyone would go to those springs/shocks for track use, I think the main thing would be the spoilers - especially the front lip spoiler. Thanks, - Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted January 24, 2007 Share Posted January 24, 2007 Mark, after reading the ruling on the Neon and Neon ACR stuff, I'd expect to take points for "R" package items but we'll see what Greg says. as bad as the Miata got hit in base classing, I'd hope they'd get the 350Z ruling and not the Neon one... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryM05 Posted January 25, 2007 Share Posted January 25, 2007 Call me dense, but I want to make sure that I understand: the stock LSD on a non-Track model, '03 350Z (Performance model, in this case) is free...do I have that right? Yes. Great; thanks for following up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
National Staff Greg G. Posted January 25, 2007 National Staff Share Posted January 25, 2007 Since the Miata R Package is not listed as a different line item, does that mean that all '94-'97 Miatas can update/backdate to the above parts? Thanks, - Mark No, it means that all of the parts on an R package Miata that don't come as a standard item on a base model Miata must be assessed points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markus Posted January 25, 2007 Share Posted January 25, 2007 Thanks for the quick response Greg - just wanted to confirm that. Sorry if I missed it in the new rules, but if this isn't mentioned in there somewhere it should be. (IE - "For factory performance packages not specifically mentioned points must be declared for all parts not found on a base unit blah blah blah) - Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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