mcmmotorsports Posted January 7, 2007 Share Posted January 7, 2007 Just wanted to get your feedback about my welds. A short history. I had a Hobart Handler 175 which I used to build my Homemade trailer and other oval track race cars. At the end of 2005, I sold the welder, the race car and the trailer. I have been tinkering with the welding stuff on and off for about 13 years now. I can have a local chassis builder fab and install a cage in my latest creation, a '94 Civic for around $1,000. OR, I can buy a Kirk Racing kit, for around $750.00 shipped, another Hobart Welder for $650 and do the install myself. Yes, it will be more to do it myself (because of the extra expense for the welder) but I could use the welder for other stuff. My real question for you guys is the quality of my welds. Disregard the splatter, I needed to grind the metal down a little more in the pics. What is your opinions of the quality of my welds. BE HONEST! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white_2kgt Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 Its going to be VERY hard for someone to tell you if your weld is worth a shit from those pictures. Just b/c a weld may 'look' pretty doesn't mean it is strong. You may have used to much/not enough heat and not gotten enough penetration or you caused the area around the weld to become brittle. Personally, I'm all for the do it yourself stuff, but when it comes to a cage (and you KNOW why I'm saying this!), a custom cage is going to be 10x better than ANY kit cage. If you have a good cage builder in the area I'd just let them do the fab and the welding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
National Staff Jeremy C. Posted January 8, 2007 National Staff Share Posted January 8, 2007 Agreed that a custom job will be much better than a kit you purchase and weld in yourself! 1000 is VERY cheap! What all comes with that? I would Strongly recommend that you do more than the minimum required on the cage. Nascar door bars on the drivers side and a dash bar should be on your list of things to put in the cage!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcmmotorsports Posted January 8, 2007 Author Share Posted January 8, 2007 Personally, I'm all for the do it yourself stuff, but when it comes to a cage (and you KNOW why I'm saying this!), a custom cage is going to be 10x better than ANY kit cage. If you have a good cage builder in the area I'd just let them do the fab and the welding. Thanks Chad, I kinda figured you'd lean that way. Or shall I say "Roll" Agreed that a custom job will be much better than a kit you purchase and weld in yourself! 1000 is VERY cheap! What all comes with that? I would Strongly recommend that you do more than the minimum required on the cage. Nascar door bars on the drivers side and a dash bar should be on your list of things to put in the cage!!! He is a reputable Drag Chassis builder and a friend of a friend. I have known him for about 3 years now. It would include the NASA Minimum, plus NASCAR door bars and a Dash Bar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rppngears91 Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 remember dunt grind down ur welds to anything structual or load bearing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidfarmer Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 those welds look good to me, definitely as strong as the material mated to them. As for Nascar bars, read the other thread about cage design. Appears lots of folks think Nascar bars are a very unsafe idea (I'm not convinced one way or the other) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcmmotorsports Posted January 11, 2007 Author Share Posted January 11, 2007 those welds look good to me, definitely as strong as the material mated to them. As for Nascar bars, read the other thread about cage design. Appears lots of folks think Nascar bars are a very unsafe idea (I'm not convinced one way or the other) Thanks for the compliments. I have never heard any say that NASCAR bars are unsafe. That is a first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white_2kgt Posted January 12, 2007 Share Posted January 12, 2007 those welds look good to me, definitely as strong as the material mated to them. As for Nascar bars, read the other thread about cage design. Appears lots of folks think Nascar bars are a very unsafe idea (I'm not convinced one way or the other) Thanks for the compliments. I have never heard any say that NASCAR bars are unsafe. That is a first. Part of the problem is how one interperates 'NASCAR' bars. The actual rules for NASCAR bars are pretty much unknow to anyone. It is agreed on that they are 4 vertical bars connected with horzontal bars but the actual specs are not available to us. I tried to get them when building my own cage to no avail. So the consencence is to use at least 2 or 3 vertial bars and connect them together. But that isn't a rule, so while one person's NASCAR basr may be the safest thing on the planet, the guy down the road's might not be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nape Posted January 12, 2007 Share Posted January 12, 2007 I couldn't get a NASCAR rule book either, so I bought the next best thing, a book that talks about the design and construction of NASCAR stock cars and happens to have a lot of high quality pictures The book was published in 2001 so the designs are fairly recent. Unfortunately, I don't have a scanner so you'll have to suffer through my picture of a picture. I did resize and lighten them up to help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nape Posted January 12, 2007 Share Posted January 12, 2007 Also, white 2kgt, look at the differences between the door bars on your old car and the stock car pics posted above. I'm not an engineer or an experienced chassis builder, but I am an Electrician so I'm always bending pipe. After a while doing it, you start to notice nuances of the materials and how certain bends effect strength. Your old car's door bars look like they had, what I would call, an offset bent in them before they attached to the main hoop. It may not seem weak, but it's not as strong as if you had only used one bend or no bends. If you would like to see this happen in an affordable way, use 1/2" EMT conduit. To test, fix the ends straight piece of pipe so they can't move and try to bend it. It will give a little, but it is strong in tension, like what was stated in the other thread. If you bend up a piece like your old door bar, you will notice the tendancy for the offset to open up (lose degrees of bend) as you add more force. When David Farmer said that a stock door structure with straight bars behind it is stronger the one or two curved bars and a gutted door, I believe he was talking about a stock, untouched door followed by an X-brace like you usually see on the passenger's side. Also, your door bars are different then what he mentioned. I believe he is refering to a setup more like the one shown below. It is missing the bottom bar and braces compared to your cage. Like I said earlier, I'm not an engineer and I don't do FEA, so if anything I've stated here is wrong feel free to correct me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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