zuperdave Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 OK, I've studied the rules and both see the Toyo RA1 as the spec tire for Honda Challenge cars, then see where the HC rules seem to say that wheel size is "open." Is there a spec tire for the Honda Challenge, if so is it the RA1, and if so what size(s) for H5 and H4? Thx! Dave R HPDE1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Hohwart Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 For the WCHC the RA1 is the spec tire. I believe the wheel diameter is not limited but the wheel width is limited to 7" in all classes except H1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeski38 Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 Dave Are you planning on running in H4 or H5? -mike GOTO:Racing #6 H5 CRX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
civicrr Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 Dave, Rick is correct. While the RA-1 is the spec tire, there isn't a spec tire size since there are several models (of cars) competing in each class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zuperdave Posted March 19, 2004 Author Share Posted March 19, 2004 So the RA1 is the "spec" tire for the HC, there is no specific wheel size, and the max tire width regardless of wheel size is 7" except maybe in H1. So I could run RA1s on my OEM 13" wheels or use any other wheel/tire size set-up I liked... What about another brand of tire? Mike, I'm a *** long *** ways off from being a "racer," although maybe you can tell I have the bug (I have a team name and logo in mind!). I need to save all my pennies for HPDE and racing schools so I can learn how to drive first, then think about building my car. Meanwhile I try to sneak in some incremental upgrades that don't make it a pain to drive every day. My donor car is a 1992 Civic VX hatchback, the first of the 1.5L VTEC SOHC. Not much hp under the hood, I've looked and there are no "ready to wear" bolt-ons for that engine. But I love the car. I've already done what I can to squeeze more performance out of it, which is to improve handling (adjustable coil-overs, rear sway bar, front and rear upper strut braces) and 16" wheels w/wider, lower tires than the original 165/70s. Corners like hell now, but getting those big tires rolling and keeping them rolling costs me more power than I expected. My advisors are suggesting I drop back down to a smaller-diameter wheel/tire, maybe 14." Thus the questions about tires: although I won't be able to get the most out of them right now, why not start practicing on the set-up I will be competing on? So if I want to use my stock engine, am I H5? And if I do an engine swap, say from an Si, am I H4? Looks like putting an Integra GSR engine in it (like one shop would like to do!) makes me scary fast, H1, and totally out of my league vs the experienced drivers... My employer is starting to get tight with weekdays off, so maybe I'll have to miss the HPDE-only days I was looking forward to and come to the Sat/Sun events. See you out there! Dave R HPDE1 #192 Red Civic VX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Hohwart Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 Your car as it is would be an H5 car according to the rules but there is no weight listed for it. This is probably an oversight becasue i think your car is probably the rarest of the that model generation. Weights are listed for the DX so you would probably fit in that category at 2400 lbs. It would be competitive in H5 although I think the weight is a bit high. The good thing about NASA is they are always looking to make the HC fair for all competitors so they are willing to make adjustments to weight as required. You are stuck with the toyo tire - "stuck" not being bad though. the Toyo lasts longer than any other tire and it is fast all the way from new to the cords. other tires are faster but do not last as long and they slow down before worn to the cords. My car is basically the same as yours and I have run 2 events and 2 test days on my set of Toyos and i anticipate at least 2 more events on them before I have to think about new ones. If you drop any other engine it it is considered a hybrid and you are placed in H1. There are some exceptions with changing tubs but that gets very complicated. However if you put a D16Z6 engine in the car, and basically equipped it as an SI, I don't see any real reason you could not run H4. Of course that is up to the HC officials. CVivic RR can get you going up north and I can't think of a better series to be involved in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
civicrr Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 Dave, As the car sits, you are in H5. If you drop a Si (D16Z6) swap in, you will be in H4. That is a very simple statement for a somewhat complicated process. The rule(s) that will allow this is listed as the 'tub swap'. The rule stipulates that you can't/won't gain a structural advantage. One part of this rule that will cost you money is the fact that the Si/EX (& 94-00 Integra) run bigger front brakes. You will need to get new front knuckles (uprights), brake calipers & rotors to complete this part of the swap. You will also benefit from getting to use rear disc. Unfortunately, this part of the swap requires you to spend money again. You will need trailing arms, calipers & rotors again. You need the trailing arms because the stub axles aren't available by themselves. (same cars as above) I would also suggest changing out the master cylinder & brake proportioning valve from an Si. The good news is that the VX has the wires needed for the sohc vtec operation already in the harness. In other words, you won't need to add those wires or change the harness like some other swaps. You get away with not having the sunroof because another section/rule allows it to be replaced with a solid panel. It even goes so far as saying the 'roof' can be replaced with a non-sunroof model. More questions, please email me @ [email protected] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeski38 Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 Dave, You should totally start in H5. It is a great place to learn how to drive fast since we only get to work with around 100 ponies at the flywheel, i don't even want to know how little hp my first gen CRX has at the wheels...too depressing. The great thing about H5 is how little it costs to run the car. Thanks to our flee circus engines, we don't wear out tires, brakes, axles, or even motors nearly as fast as the H4 guys. GOTO:Racing runs 2 cars in HC. Of course our H5 CRX and our H4 integra. The integra literally burns twice the tires and brakes of the CRX. Also we are not that much slower. It is rare but H5 cars have been known to beat an H4 car from time to time. You are in a cool situation with your car being that you could start in H5 and if you have more income down the road you could do a chassis swap and run H4. If you wnat to save some money, GOTO:Racing can build and install a custom cage for you for only $1200. Thats no bolt-in street cage either, I'm talkin' a real racing cage. If you are interested email me at [email protected]. If you do come to a weekend event, track us down in the paddock. Our cars are red black and white, and our motorhome is a green endevor. Good Luck! Mike GOTO:Racing #6 H5 CRX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zuperdave Posted March 19, 2004 Author Share Posted March 19, 2004 Thanks to all of you for your thoughts. I don't have a time frame or deadline for becoming a licensed competitor. I just know that my schedule and budget for seat time and car-related stuff means it's a ways off! I'm hoping to do about 4 or 5 more HPDE events this year, maybe a racer school, and maybe move up to Group 3 this year. (It would take a miracle for me to break into Group 4 this year...) Even if I could speed up the learning curve, I have a household budget to not bust! Dave R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slock Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 Dave, as you progress through HPDE, consider joining us in NASA TT. we run in group 4 and it is a good step toward racing. we have the best lead instructor in Al Butterfield and in TT you get lap time to track your consistency. plus group 4 is a great bunch of folks to run with. you will learn a lot. We race on a buget as well but invest early in the saftey stuff. A drivers gear a cage and a fire system. All before you invest in HP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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