shessler Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 How far down the list of non-adjustable no coil over modification level of performance can reasonably be expected to be legal as an OEM replacement? I understand (or assume...) that a shock marketed as a 'performance' item, like Bilsteins, KYB's, or Tokico's will be looking at +3 (even the non-adjustable ones), but would I be looking at +3 for a Pep Boys "Heavy Duty" vs. the "Standard Commuter"? Sadly, it will actually make the difference between a class bump or not. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racercosmo Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 Are KYBs actually included in the aftermarket shock point add on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
National Staff Greg G. Posted January 19, 2007 National Staff Share Posted January 19, 2007 Shocks are really so difficult to police that we can't give any leeway on this item. If they aren't OEM or the specific aftermarket model number called for by the Manufacturer as an OEM replacement, they are going to cost the 3 points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shessler Posted January 19, 2007 Author Share Posted January 19, 2007 I was afraid that would be the case. Oh well, anyone need some shocks, they'll fit any car (assuming you have a welder) AND they have Sense-A-Trak technology! Only $2399.99 Just jokin, not flamin... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rrrracer Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 So THAT was going to be your secret weapon for 2007 eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shessler Posted January 19, 2007 Author Share Posted January 19, 2007 I ain't tellin! No, I was just playin around with some possiblities on where my little cars would end up class wise, the Corvette would cost way too much $$$/comfort/utility to ever pretend to be competitive. So as stuff is, if I did the math correct andput the 10 point race tires on either the Miata or the Scirocco I'm lookin at TTE car with about 5 points to spare, BUT if I was clever and didn't have to spend 3 points on shocks I could just squeeze the CRX (86 Si) into TTF. Don't say it, I KNOW I didn't need another car, but it followed me home and was just too cute to send away. I don't have a problem, I can quit anytime I want... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roadracetransam Posted January 20, 2007 Share Posted January 20, 2007 I don't have a problem, I can quit anytime I want... Spoken like a true Addict. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IGZOSTD Posted January 20, 2007 Share Posted January 20, 2007 After suffering from childhood with an unknown mental disorder causing my doctor such agony , and America's obsession with classifing every male's God givin desire to compete , I have coined a new med. condition for Greg to investigate . RDD , racers deficate disorder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
National Staff Greg G. Posted January 20, 2007 National Staff Share Posted January 20, 2007 After suffering from childhood with an unknown mental disorder causing my doctor such agony , and America's obsession with classifing every male's God givin desire to compete , I have coined a new med. condition for Greg to investigate . RDD , racers deficate disorder Are you sure you meant, "deficate" and not "deficit"? Those are definitely two disorders you wouldn't want to get mixed up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shessler Posted January 20, 2007 Author Share Posted January 20, 2007 I think I meant to say "I can quit any time I run out of money". At least until I get some more... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IGZOSTD Posted January 20, 2007 Share Posted January 20, 2007 YES I do mean , Deficit , I have a spelling disorder to cover my a-- opps wait a second , Thats why your the Doctor and I Move the Earth . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan in Omaha Posted January 23, 2007 Share Posted January 23, 2007 Shocks are really so difficult to police that we can't give any leeway on this item. If they aren't OEM or the specific aftermarket model number called for by the Manufacturer as an OEM replacement, they are going to cost the 3 points. So, the OEM shock (what came on the vehicle from the factory) is OK as long as it has the the factory part number and is standard for that vehicle model and option package and will not incur any points penalty? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
National Staff Greg G. Posted January 23, 2007 National Staff Share Posted January 23, 2007 Shocks are really so difficult to police that we can't give any leeway on this item. If they aren't OEM or the specific aftermarket model number called for by the Manufacturer as an OEM replacement, they are going to cost the 3 points. So, the OEM shock (what came on the vehicle from the factory) is OK as long as it has the the factory part number and is standard for that vehicle model and option package and will not incur any points penalty? It is legal as long as it is standard for the vehicle model trim/option package as listed on the table. Unless there is a specific trim package/model listed, the default is always to the base, no-frills, no options trim package. And, as long as it hasn't been modified (re-valved, gutted, etc.), it would be points-free. So, if a car is listed as a "Honda Civic", then it must take points for anything other than the base OEM shock, even if the car is an upgraded trim model that came with a better shock. If the listing in the table says "Honda Civic Si", and the Si came with a different shock than the base, trim model Civic, it can keep the different shock without points assessed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan in Omaha Posted January 23, 2007 Share Posted January 23, 2007 Shocks are really so difficult to police that we can't give any leeway on this item. If they aren't OEM or the specific aftermarket model number called for by the Manufacturer as an OEM replacement, they are going to cost the 3 points. So, the OEM shock (what came on the vehicle from the factory) is OK as long as it has the the factory part number and is standard for that vehicle model and option package and will not incur any points penalty? It is legal as long as it is standard for the vehicle model trim/option package as listed on the table. Unless there is a specific trim package/model listed, the default is always to the base, no-frills, no options trim package. And, as long as it hasn't been modified (re-valved, gutted, etc.), it would be points-free. So, if a car is listed as a "Honda Civic", then it must take points for anything other than the base OEM shock, even if the car is an upgraded trim model that came with a better shock. If the listing in the table says "Honda Civic Si", and the Si came with a different shock than the base, trim model Civic, it can keep the different shock without points assessed. So the base model Neons with the ACR option code would have to claim their factory installed Koni's since we are comparing to the most basic car available? (The ACR was never a Neon model but an option code to either the base or later highline cars) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
National Staff Greg G. Posted January 23, 2007 National Staff Share Posted January 23, 2007 So the base model Neons with the ACR option code would have to claim their factory installed Koni's since we are comparing to the most basic car available? (The ACR was never a Neon model but an option code to either the base or later highline cars) Yes they would. I think they also have sway bar upgrades too that they need to claim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neon2dmaX Posted January 23, 2007 Share Posted January 23, 2007 So the base model Neons with the ACR option code would have to claim their factory installed Koni's since we are comparing to the most basic car available? (The ACR was never a Neon model but an option code to either the base or later highline cars) Yes they would. I think they also have sway bar upgrades too that they need to claim. And don't forget the springs. ACR had different springs from OEM base (albeit a relatively minor difference). In any event, chances are that you would want to change the springs, whether OEM or ACR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted January 23, 2007 Share Posted January 23, 2007 that ruling just shafted the crap out of those cars.... getting slapped points for factory equipment has gotta suck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
National Staff Greg G. Posted January 23, 2007 National Staff Share Posted January 23, 2007 that ruling just shafted the crap out of those cars.... getting slapped points for factory equipment has gotta suck It actually just saved them points if they want to upgrade those parts. Last year they were listed separately one asterix higher. The shocks/springs/sways cost 7 points. So, now they can keep the ACR parts on for the 7 points, or change them out to better parts for the same 7 points. They were covered last year by the "Special Circumstances" rules, but it is cleaner this way, and classing them is easier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neon2dmaX Posted January 23, 2007 Share Posted January 23, 2007 I agree with Greg on this one. In fact, as a competitor who dirves a Neon, I had pointed out that the ACR package was not much more than a spring-shock-swaybar package. Moreover, under the 06 rules, the ACR was given an additonal weight penalty for no apparent reason. As it stands now, anyone could take any Neon and prep it to ACR specs without incurring additional points beyond the ACR. Or, as Greg pointed out, both cars could add alternate springs, swaybars, and shocks and end up with the same total points. Seems much more fair to me, and in my humble opinion, similar performance packages for other makes should be treated the same. Thus, a Nissan owner (non SER) should be able to build his car to SER specs without incurring points beyond those assighed to the SER. And one that Greg may not like to hear, likewise, my 85 (turbo) Shelby Charger should be allowed to be built to 87 Shelby Chargeer GLHS specs without incurring points beyond the GLHS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InTheTurns Posted January 31, 2007 Share Posted January 31, 2007 I am a little confused about this issue. Doesn't the base classing take care of specific models point differences? Does a mustang GT have to take points for an engine change because the base mustang is a V6. Would a Mustang Cobra have to take points for the Bilsteins that come on the car when it is already base classed over the GT and V6 models? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racercosmo Posted January 31, 2007 Share Posted January 31, 2007 There is a difference bewteen models and option packages. A Neon ACR is an option package, a Mustang Cobra is a separate model. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted January 31, 2007 Share Posted January 31, 2007 if there was some special edition Cobra over the regular Cobra, the SE Cobra would take points for anything thats different over the regular Cobra (assuming I read that right, which I'm pretty sure I did...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
National Staff Greg G. Posted February 1, 2007 National Staff Share Posted February 1, 2007 These guys are correct. What you get for free on the car depends on how the model is listed in our base class lists. If it says, "Mustang Cobra", then everything that comes standard on a Mustang Cobra is free, but any options would be assessed points. If it says, "Neon ACR", then everything that came on the ACR model is free. However, since it doesn't say, "Neon ACR" any longer, and just says, "Neon", then all of the parts on the ACR version that don't come standard on a base trim package Neon get assessed points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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