Keith Posted January 26, 2007 Share Posted January 26, 2007 I find it very hard to believe anyone that is serious would leave over a hundred pounds or the equivalent power on the table.It all depends on how confident you are in your dyno numbers. When there is a dyno at the track and you know you will be tested you have to leave yourself some room for error. Many of the guys in our region have been burned before, and now leave themselves about 100# cushion. Are you confident that you will NEVER exceed your current dyno numbers? I think this dialog exposes an unique feature of the OH/IN Region. Our impound almost ALWAYS consists of scales and dyno pulls and from I know of the Texas and CA regions, there aren't dyno there often if at all. This makes one much less willing to run close to the edge. This is also true in CMC... Besides, this past season across 2 days (no mods, similar fuel loads) my car managed to lose 60 pounds between Sat. and Sun. impound. Remember, DynoJet considers 1% variance in spec for their dynos and I believe the scales will provide a wider variance. ...do the math... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff F Posted January 26, 2007 Share Posted January 26, 2007 Sorry Jeff, but those numbers are about as useful as a boil on my a## (both cheeks) Those numbers can only be deemed meaningful if the level of preparation and driver skills were pretty close to all the cars listed. That was not the case, far from it. I hope nobody looks at the data and makes design specs for their AI car based on that. Ernesto, you are completely missing the point of this. There has been a lot of talk lately about what is required to field a competitive AI car. Drivers of certain makes/models have stated that they can't be competitive because they can't get their cars light enough, and the decrease in minimum weight to 2700 makes it even harder. People running carbs have stated that they are at a disadvantage to EFI because they don't have the tuning flexibility to get the ratios spot-on. People with various combinations feel they are at a disadvantage because they can't make minimum weight for their HP/TQ. This was published to disprove all the conspiracy theories and prove what we have been saying all along-- it has more to do with driver ability and car prep than weight and ratios. Nobody is arguing that a 3100lb car isn't prefrable to a 3700lb car, or that getting the ratios exactly right and running close to your minimum weight isn't an advantage-- but just because your car is heavier than minimum, or doesn't have the perfect HP/TQ ratios, or is over your HP/TQ based minimum, doesn't mean you can't be competitive. When someone in a 3570# car that is 373# over minimum can be in the hunt for the top spot, it proves that there is more to it than hardware. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ernesto Roco Posted January 26, 2007 Share Posted January 26, 2007 Got it. My point also is that AI is still relatively in it's infancy development wise as say compared to AV8SS (Australian). We are still in the fundamentals phase, meaning preparation and driver abilities play the biggest factor when it comes to performance. With that point I guess we have the same message. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trackboss Posted January 27, 2007 Share Posted January 27, 2007 Jeff, the dyno and scales put some discomfort in any competitor, but if a 100lb + cushion needs to be added then that tells me the dyno and the scales used are not consistant or calibrated properly. This class lives by this rule and if it can sway that much in any direction then it should be either fixed or not used. That is absolutely not fair to the competitors. The 300+lbs extra I don't by. Driver and car prep being equal the lighter car by the same amount and closer to the ratio will win every time and turn faster laps. Pending no mistakes. Especially in a 40 minute race. This overweight thing looks like a smokescreen to me. That is of course unless all the other driver's skills suck which I don't believe. I don't see why everyone believes everything they see. Maybe I'll just need to find some of that "dyno recognition" software like some others and make you all wonder why an AI car is keeping up with an AIX car on the straights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XAIX Posted January 27, 2007 Share Posted January 27, 2007 Ernesto, I don’t know which image is more disturbing…a boil…a boil on your ass…or just your ass! Trackboss, I’m with you. A good driver will always go faster in the lighter configuration. Chris, An average weight of 3,248.167 lb?! Talk about piggies…and how the hell do you build an AI race car that weighs 3,739 lb?! Are these guys leaving the AC in these things? Wouldn’t it be easier to limit the cubic inches, compression ratio, valve diameter, cam lift, carb/EFI bore size, set the weight at…geeeze for these porkers about 3,300 lb, let the light guys add ballast and be done with it? For the heavy guys…figure out how to build a race car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ernesto Roco Posted January 27, 2007 Share Posted January 27, 2007 Dana, Man you crack me up See you at TH in April. I hope you guys will race that beast of a car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Matt Posted January 27, 2007 Share Posted January 27, 2007 Wouldn’t it be easier to limit the cubic inches, compression ratio, valve diameter, cam lift, carb/EFI bore size, set the weight at…geeeze for these porkers about 3,300 lb, let the light guys add ballast and be done with it? For the heavy guys…figure out how to build a race car. That class already exists--it's called A Sedan and "easier" is not a word I'd use to describe it. I don't think there's anybody running in AI who wants that model. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nape Posted January 27, 2007 Share Posted January 27, 2007 Wouldn’t it be easier to limit the cubic inches, compression ratio, valve diameter, cam lift, carb/EFI bore size, set the weight at…geeeze for these porkers about 3,300 lb, let the light guys add ballast and be done with it? For the heavy guys…figure out how to build a race car. You going to offer to tech all the cars and pay for all the gaskets that will be needed when you start tearing everything down? Doubt it, so why change things? I like the rules, run whatca brung as long as it fits in the rules and hope you brought enough. Tire limit and power/weight seems to work well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raybob9289 Posted January 28, 2007 Share Posted January 28, 2007 Wouldn’t it be easier to limit the cubic inches, compression ratio, valve diameter, cam lift, carb/EFI bore size, set the weight at…geeeze for these porkers about 3,300 lb, let the light guys add ballast and be done with it? For the heavy guys…figure out how to build a race car. That class already exists--it's called A Sedan and "easier" is not a word I'd use to describe it. I don't think there's anybody running in AI who wants that model. Well said Mr. King, Been there Done that.... RayBob ex Asedan racer, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XAIX Posted January 28, 2007 Share Posted January 28, 2007 OK, I get your point...but I want to hear more about this 'Dyno recognition software". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nape Posted January 29, 2007 Share Posted January 29, 2007 OK, I get your point...but I want to hear more about this 'Dyno recognition software". Sounds like a pitiful idea if someone needs to use it to be competitive in AMATEUR races... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marshallmosty Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 I'm playing the lightweight card... 2800 lb car, 292/302 (2774 minimum weight)... we'll see how it goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RW Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 I'm playing the lightweight card... 2800 lb car, 292/302 (2774 minimum weight)... we'll see how it goes. I'm right there with you Marshall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_tone Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 Vageli, what is the final weight of the fox body car you just finished? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RW Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 Vageli, what is the final weight of the fox body car you just finished? Are you sure you really want to know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_tone Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 Vageli, what is the final weight of the fox body car you just finished? Are you sure you really want to know? Is it going to be shocking how heavy it is? Why wouldn't I want to know. I should clarify I am hoping to see the pre-ballast weight. bpt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Matt Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 Vageli Karas doesn't weigh race cars. He stares them down to minimum weight. If they are still too heavy, he knocks the weight off with a roundhouse kick, then he sets a new lap record. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RW Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 Is it going to be shocking how heavy it is? Why wouldn't I want to know. I should clarify I am hoping to see the pre-ballast weight. bpt I'll let him elaborate if he so chooses. I just know he'll have a very stout piece under him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_tone Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 I'll let him elaborate if he so chooses. I just know he'll have a very stout piece under him. I am simply interested to see what his new car weighs (and to see pics) and to know how close to the limit he runs it. Since all numbers are public record it should not be an issue disclosing them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ernesto Roco Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 At this point I doubt V will be volunteering any pics of the car. I won't be surprised if it is covered by a tarp in between heats and guarded by Wee Man 24 X 7. The racing has officially begun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_tone Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 At this point I doubt V will be volunteering any pics of the car. I won't be surprised if it is covered by a tarp in between heats and guarded by Wee Man 24 X 7. The racing has officially begun Well then we'll expect that the fellow competitors use their stated right to examine the car and take pics and post them for us. How can anything be top secret when all cars are available to inspection to competitors. bpt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ernesto Roco Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 You'll need to ask V for permission on the pics. V is not the friendliest face out there If you're brave enough. He reminds me of Tito Ortiz from UFC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RW Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 You'll need to ask V for permission on the pics. V is not the friendliest face out there If you're brave enough. He reminds me of Tito Ortiz from UFC. ...on a good day. Brian, I didn't mean to stir up anything. I just felt it should come from the man himself if he wants to share that info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trackboss Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 I haven't raced the car yet so I am not sure exactly what the post race weight will be. Right now I am thinking about running the car at about 3000lbs. I can run it much lighter, but in order to do so legally means really choking down the power and I think a car that weighs much under 3k post race will get killed by the more powerful cars in most scenarios. That is just my opinion. Still need to get more seat time and tune this thing so I don't have all the answers. I've only got a couple photos as they all got wiped out on my computer. Its really no big deal. Just an old fox mustang built in my garage. There are much prettier cars to look at than this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gr42ai Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 I can tell the 42 car had a post race weight of 3040, I weighed 245lbs, and yes it had some ballast and fuel left in the tank. How much is your guess. Guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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