BlacktopRacing Posted February 11, 2007 Share Posted February 11, 2007 Can Anybody Tell Me What Class This Car Would Be In? http://users.zoominternet.net/~tworx7s/daleb.html I can't make heads or tails out of the rules and there are too many links involced. I just don't have all day to perform research, so any help would be appreciated. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Shawn M. Posted February 12, 2007 Members Share Posted February 12, 2007 I can't make heads or tails out of the rules and there are too many links involced. I just don't have all day to perform research, so any help would be appreciated. Thanks! If you dont have time to class your own car, then im concearned that you wont have time to buy it, much less race it. If I class it, can I drive it for you too? Why dont you give it a go and when you run into problems, ask here for help? Seems to me there are enough details on the web page to class that car. The only file you need is: http://www.nasaproracing.com/rules/Time-Trial-Rules.pdf With that, you can class your car. The only other info you will need is the weight of the car and probably a fresh dyno sheet to submit to the TT director for the engine swap authorization. GL!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrc24x Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 TTU, nice and easy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 TTU, nice and easy. still need weight & dyno.... TTR = does it pass tech? yes! go have fun.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Shawn M. Posted February 12, 2007 Members Share Posted February 12, 2007 TTU, nice and easy. still need weight & dyno..... And the little thing where the motor swap gets approved..... minor little stuff really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GooRoo Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 TTU, nice and easy. still need weight & dyno..... And the little thing where the motor swap gets approved..... minor little stuff really. Ok, I'll weigh in since this is my area of knowledge... A 2002 13BREW 'block' is essentially the same as the '93 version, assuming he is still using all the stock accesories. No differences in porting or parts that would affect power (or points for tt) so it would likely not be a 'motor swap' issue to worry about here. Heck, everyone buying rebuilds is getting '2002' spec parts anyway if their builder is any good. As for classing, there's a ton of points on this car. It starts as TTC* so that's 7 PTS which means we have 52 left before we'd hit the 3rd 'up-class' and jump to TTS. Using the Track Tires would be +4 for 20mm over stock and +10 for hoosiers The weight would likely be run with alternate weight method, and not have an issue getting to 2826 w/driver. So I'll go no points either way here. You may be able to save some points here by being over weight but probably not enought to save you (I'll explain later) Probably has aftermarket pullies (or should) so that's +1 Aftermarket Computer, so that's +14 Intake +1 Modified wastegate +3 Aftermarket Intercooler +7 Non-OEM fuel system +2 Non-OEM complete exhaust +2 Cat removal +1 We're already at 52 points... you can see where this is going... Shocks were probably less than $600 each, so +3 for those. Springs are +2 Modified sway bar mounts are +2 Non-OEM trailing arms +1 Bingo, we're over the limit of 60 points to stay in TTA... and there's more points on the car. So the alternative is to class the car with weight and power with Greg G. and try to run less points in tires and other modifications to stay in TTA. This could be done, my numbers show with RA-1's at 255 and a couple small changes to drop some points should leave the car in TTA, but this will require some de-modification to the car or the requirement to run even smaller/harder compound tires. If that is unacceptable the alternative is to leave all the mods alone and class in TTS, given the approximate horsepower. A FD running DOT R-Compound tires in 275's width (on 9.5" wide wheels) front and rear should be able to be around 2851 lbs and make 330 rwhp and stay in class. The car (as listed on that web page) sounds just about ideal for that setup. A few more mods and the car should be relatively competitive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 TTU, nice and easy. still need weight & dyno..... And the little thing where the motor swap gets approved..... minor little stuff really. Ok, I'll weigh in since this is my area of knowledge... A 2002 13BREW 'block' is essentially the same as the '93 version, assuming he is still using all the stock accesories. No differences in porting or parts that would affect power (or points for tt) so it would likely not be a 'motor swap' issue to worry about here. Heck, everyone buying rebuilds is getting '2002' spec parts anyway if their builder is any good. As for classing, there's a ton of points on this car. It starts as TTC* so that's 7 PTS which means we have 52 left before we'd hit the 3rd 'up-class' and jump to TTS. Using the Track Tires would be +4 for 20mm over stock and +10 for hoosiers The weight would likely be run with alternate weight method, and not have an issue getting to 2826 w/driver. So I'll go no points either way here. You may be able to save some points here by being over weight but probably not enought to save you (I'll explain later) Probably has aftermarket pullies (or should) so that's +1 Aftermarket Computer, so that's +14 Intake +1 Modified wastegate +3 Aftermarket Intercooler +7 Non-OEM fuel system +2 Non-OEM complete exhaust +2 Cat removal +1 We're already at 52 points... you can see where this is going... Shocks were probably less than $600 each, so +3 for those. Springs are +2 Modified sway bar mounts are +2 Non-OEM trailing arms +1 Bingo, we're over the limit of 60 points to stay in TTA... and there's more points on the car. So the alternative is to class the car with weight and power with Greg G. and try to run less points in tires and other modifications to stay in TTA. This could be done, my numbers show with RA-1's at 255 and a couple small changes to drop some points should leave the car in TTA, but this will require some de-modification to the car or the requirement to run even smaller/harder compound tires. If that is unacceptable the alternative is to leave all the mods alone and class in TTS, given the approximate horsepower. A FD running DOT R-Compound tires in 275's width (on 9.5" wide wheels) front and rear should be able to be around 2851 lbs and make 330 rwhp and stay in class. The car (as listed on that web page) sounds just about ideal for that setup. A few more mods and the car should be relatively competitive. have you read the '07 rules? Using the Track Tires would be +4 for 20mm over stock and +10 for hoosiers stock doesnt matter, what matters is the tire size you use vs. your base class size.... You may be able to save some points here by being over weight but probably not enought to save you (I'll explain later) where does it say you can get points back by being too heavy?? the only way you can get points back that I've seen is to run narrower tires than what is supposed to be used for your base class. Did I really miss something here? I'd be worried his adjusted power:weight would still crack the limit for TTA and get bumped into TTS anyway. Plus if you just want to build a fast car and change whatever the heck you want without too much consequence, TTS/U is a much better place anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Shawn M. Posted February 13, 2007 Members Share Posted February 13, 2007 Ok, I'll weigh in since this is my area of knowledge... A 2002 13BREW 'block' is essentially the same as the '93 version, assuming he is still using all the stock accesories.. OK but the seller listed it as a 2004 13B-REW motor. Was that a motor that you could get in a 2003? If not, then its a motor swap right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 Ok, I'll weigh in since this is my area of knowledge... A 2002 13BREW 'block' is essentially the same as the '93 version, assuming he is still using all the stock accesories.. OK but the seller listed it as a 2004 13B-REW motor. Was that a motor that you could get in a 2003? If not, then its a motor swap right? if all that is different is the year it was made, who cares? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Shawn M. Posted February 13, 2007 Members Share Posted February 13, 2007 OK but the seller listed it as a 2004 13B-REW motor. Was that a motor that you could get in a 2003? If not, then its a motor swap right? if all that is different is the year it was made, who cares? I dont know jack about Mazdas other than driving them. Know that first. What im saying is, if that engine code on the motor was not available for the 2003 then any newer technology/upgrades found in the 2004 would be an engine swap. Right?? Otherwise, im wasting my time eating points for my engine swap! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GooRoo Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 Ok, I'll weigh in since this is my area of knowledge... A 2002 13BREW 'block' is essentially the same as the '93 version, assuming he is still using all the stock accesories.. OK but the seller listed it as a 2004 13B-REW motor. Was that a motor that you could get in a 2003? If not, then its a motor swap right? 1993-2004 = All the same motor. There are no varying 'engine codes' for 3rd Gens RX7's... They're all just 13B-REWs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GooRoo Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 Ok, I'll weigh in since this is my area of knowledge... A 2002 13BREW 'block' is essentially ... blah blah blah have you read the '07 rules? I've definitely read the rules, where do you think I got the point values? Using the Track Tires would be +4 for 20mm over stock and +10 for hoosiers stock doesnt matter, what matters is the tire size you use vs. your base class size.... Bad term there, I should have said 'stock for TTC' (255) - and as he's running 275s in the rear, the points are correct. You may be able to save some points here by being over weight but probably not enought to save you (I'll explain later) where does it say you can get points back by being too heavy?? the only way you can get points back that I've seen is to run narrower tires than what is supposed to be used for your base class. Did I really miss something here? If you think about it a different way, if you re-base-class your car giving Greg G the weight and power of the car, you can 'get points back' for being over weight. He figures the power/weight, and gives you a new base class based on those. So a RX7 at 330 rwhp, and 2826 pounds will be classed higher than the same exact 7 at 330 rwhp, and 3200 pounds (which is closer to stock w/driver.) No wierdness in the rules, just a different perspective. I'd be worried his adjusted power:weight would still crack the limit for TTA and get bumped into TTS anyway. Plus if you just want to build a fast car and change whatever the heck you want without too much consequence, TTS/U is a much better place anyway The power/weight limits are the same for TTA and TTS. If you go over the limit for TTA you are over the limit for TTS as well and you end up in U. This is definitely not a 'U' car, so the limit needs to be respected. Regardless, It's not too hard to keep the car under the limit once you consider a full load of fuel and driver. My car (which probably has more weight reduction than this one) with me/fluids in it is exactly 3000 lbs. This car is probably slightly heavier, and running 275 tires gives a bonus of .4 to the adjusted power to weight. With a modifier of probably -.2 or -.15 for the weight (probably 3000-3050ish lbs) he should be right about 360 rwhp, which he is probably under by 20-30hp (given the mustang->dynojet conversion.) Plus this is a turbo car we're talking about here, so it would be pretty easy to just down the boost a little and make less power if required. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
National Staff Greg G. Posted February 15, 2007 National Staff Share Posted February 15, 2007 You may be able to save some points here by being over weight but probably not enought to save you (I'll explain later) where does it say you can get points back by being too heavy?? the only way you can get points back that I've seen is to run narrower tires than what is supposed to be used for your base class. Did I really miss something here? If you think about it a different way, if you re-base-class your car giving Greg G the weight and power of the car, you can 'get points back' for being over weight. He figures the power/weight, and gives you a new base class based on those. So a RX7 at 330 rwhp, and 2826 pounds will be classed higher than the same exact 7 at 330 rwhp, and 3200 pounds (which is closer to stock w/driver.) No wierdness in the rules, just a different perspective. You can't re-base class the car unless it is a motor swap, aftermarket/modded turbo/supercharger, or aftermarket heads (which, in those cases, it is required that you re-class by dyno and weight). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GooRoo Posted February 15, 2007 Share Posted February 15, 2007 If you think about it a different way, if you re-base-class your car giving Greg G the weight and power of the car, you can 'get points back' for being over weight. He figures the power/weight, and gives you a new base class based on those. So a RX7 at 330 rwhp, and 2826 pounds will be classed higher than the same exact 7 at 330 rwhp, and 3200 pounds (which is closer to stock w/driver.) No wierdness in the rules, just a different perspective. You can't re-base class the car unless it is a motor swap, aftermarket/modded turbo/supercharger, or aftermarket heads (which, in those cases, it is required that you re-class by dyno and weight). Ah, I thought it was an option for anyone. Well in any case, it would be pretty easy to get to that level in a 3rd gen if you want. Just throw in some modified ('99 spec/BNR) twins and you will be required to do the re-base-class and then you can get credit for your weight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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