RAFTRACER Posted February 19, 2007 Share Posted February 19, 2007 If a TTA car is found in a compliance check to be under 8.7:1 power to wieght ratio with driver at minumum competition wieght, will it be automatically bumped into TTU ????? I could conceivably see this happening with legal modifications to at least one certain TTA vehicle, that had been stripped to a minimum within the -150 lb criteria at stock rwhp levels. Let alone if the individual decided not to go with grip enhancements and build power instead. Is this the anti-Lindsey Audi rule ??? If so this could ruin someones weekend by not having the necessary safety equipment required by the CCR in "SUR". Greg ???? TTA-F cars are allowed to run 150lbs w/driver under published minimum curb wieght right ???? I can see us crossing this bridge sooner than later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted February 19, 2007 Share Posted February 19, 2007 you're allowed to be 5.000000 lbs under your curb weight listed in the rules, with driver, fluids, etc. (meaning for most cars you can remove your driver's weight, more or less....) I'd be interested to read the clarification of the 8.7:1 ADJUSTED ruling tho.. (don't forget to run your car's setup through the TTS/U/R sheet to check that number...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAFTRACER Posted February 19, 2007 Author Share Posted February 19, 2007 you're allowed to be 5.000000 lbs under your curb weight listed in the rules, with driver, fluids, etc. (meaning for most cars you can remove your driver's weight, more or less....) I'd be interested to read the clarification of the 8.7:1 ADJUSTED ruling tho.. (don't forget to run your car's setup through the TTS/U/R sheet to check that number...) How about 3118/360 (which is really conservative)=8.66:1, and that will happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAFTRACER Posted February 19, 2007 Author Share Posted February 19, 2007 Ken, Just read rules again for wieght modifications......Either I am chromosone deficeint or my genes are not that good, but read the first sentence of wieght reduction in the rules again for me. It says if competition wieght (with driver*) is more than 150 lbs under listed curb wieght........ Oh,Oh, I see it now alternate wieght method not highlighted under #22. Not ultra clear ......... The 8.7:1 will still be an issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted February 19, 2007 Share Posted February 19, 2007 How about 3118/360 (which is really conservative)=8.66:1, and that will happen. 8.66:1 is your unadjusted power:weight iirc you get credit for being on the heavier side which should adjust you back over 8.7000... : 1 again, run your car through the TTS/U/R sheet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAFTRACER Posted February 19, 2007 Author Share Posted February 19, 2007 How about 3118/360 (which is really conservative)=8.66:1, and that will happen. 8.66:1 is your unadjusted power:weight iirc you get credit for being on the heavier side which should adjust you back over 8.7000... : 1 again, run your car through the TTS/U/R sheet My car is a TTU car......I am worried about other cars that I either prepare /consult/ or drive. Unadjusted, yeah that is what I mean, but still that 8.66:1 # I threw out there is very conservative...that will be for a bone stock car with allowable wieght reduction mods ,running with its minimum competition wieght at the same as its listed curb wieght. Thanks for your input................ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
National Staff Greg G. Posted February 19, 2007 National Staff Share Posted February 19, 2007 Danny, you are correct. Guys with Z06's, power modded C5's, and all other higher hp cars (really all TTB and TTA cars) need to be wary of the 8.7:1 adjusted wt/power ratio cap (or the Lindsey rule ). So, you are correct that if a TTA Z06 owner decides to go with only +5 or +7 tires, and use the points for gaining power instead, he will not be able to take advantage of all of the potential "free" weight reduction. Another factor to remember is that at 3115 lbs. there is actually a -0.1 modification factor put on the adjusted wt/power ratio. So, for a RWD car weighing 3115 lbs, the maximum hp allowed would be 353 rwhp (3115/353 = 8.82 -0.1 = 8.72). At 3201 lbs (no mod factor), the maximum rwhp would be 367 rwhp, though. At 3151 lbs (-0.05 mod factor), the maximum would be 360 rwhp. So, basically, one needs to choose between having a bit more power, or having a little less overall weight and better tires/suspension. In terms of the safety rules, they are the same for all TT vehicles from TTF to TTR. I think you are thinking of the Super Touring safety rules. But, yes, if a driver is weighed and dyno'd, and found to have broken the 8.7:1 adjusted wt/power cap, he would be DQ'd. Assuming he was allowed to continue competition, it would be in TTU, or ballast would need to be added to make the car legal again for TTA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAFTRACER Posted February 19, 2007 Author Share Posted February 19, 2007 Thanks Greg, but yikes !!!!!!! A stock motor/power level Z06 with some wieght out of it will cross this threshold... The wieght modification factor applies to TTA> ????? Or only if it is "bumped" to SUR ???? Isn't the wieght modification factor only listed in the SUR section of the TT rules?? I appreciate you almighty wise insights on this stuff, before someone gets in trouble. But DAMN !!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbyevo Posted February 19, 2007 Share Posted February 19, 2007 Bump all those Z06's out of TTA, will ya Danny??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
National Staff Greg G. Posted February 19, 2007 National Staff Share Posted February 19, 2007 Thanks Greg, but yikes !!!!!!! A stock motor/power level Z06 with some wieght out of it will cross this threshold... The wieght modification factor applies to TTA> ????? Or only if it is "bumped" to SUR ???? Isn't the wieght modification factor only listed in the SUR section of the TT rules?? I appreciate you almighty wise insights on this stuff, before someone gets in trouble. But DAMN !!!!! Basically, here is the rule as written in the TT Rules: Once a vehicle exceeds the limits of the TTA class (by initial base class, upclassing due to modification points, or “adjusted†Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAFTRACER Posted February 19, 2007 Author Share Posted February 19, 2007 OKYDOKY...........Just seems a little harsh that you cannot prepare a car to the extent of the allowable modifications without going over on points , only to be bounced because the car makes too much power and wieghs too little......................Just for curiosities sake, what was the Lindsey's car pwr/wght last year ???? Back to the wieght modifier, does that apply to TTA> cars ???? If so then all classes will have to have a max pwr/wt ratio so that this can be applied evenly through TTA>. I had read the area of the rules that you highlighted for me , thats where all of the questions came from for clarification....thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johannes Posted February 19, 2007 Share Posted February 19, 2007 Too much power and/or too little weight. That is the kind of problem I would love to have Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
National Staff Greg G. Posted February 19, 2007 National Staff Share Posted February 19, 2007 OKYDOKY...........Just seems a little harsh that you cannot prepare a car to the extent of the allowable modifications without going over on points , only to be bounced because the car makes too much power and wieghs too little......................Just for curiosities sake, what was the Lindsey's car pwr/wght last year ???? Back to the wieght modifier, does that apply to TTA> cars ???? If so then all classes will have to have a max pwr/wt ratio so that this can be applied evenly through TTA>. The 8.7:1 limit applies to all classes from TTA-TTF. It is not specific to TTA. The idea is not to develop a max adjusted wt/power ratio for each class level, because there are so many other factors involved in the points system to equalize cars of different wt/power ratios at the lower levels (for example, much better suspension setups, or crazy aero packages, or chassis/cage work, none of which are accounted for in the adjusted wt/power ratio.) At the higher levels (like TTA), we can assume that those items will be much closer to being equal already. Also, NASA did not want TT to become a 100% required dyno series. Putting limits on each class would basically do just that. Again, this rule is just a last chance to keep cars that are not even eligible for TTS to compete in TTA or TTB (or TTC, etc). Remember, the Audi came up from the TTD level to become a supercar in TTA. This year, it is a TTU car, although it is getting significantly more power upgrades than it had last year. The Audi's adjusted wt/power ratio last year would have been below the '07 Rules 8.7:1, but it was nowhere close to the wt/power ratio of the top 4 TTU cars. I think there are other cars that could potentially run into problems with the adjusted ratio even in TTB, but clearly the cars that are most at risk are TTA cars, especially very light weight cars with RWD or AWD, and especially those on non-DOT slicks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAFTRACER Posted February 19, 2007 Author Share Posted February 19, 2007 I understand........... It only took a 8.0:1 pwr/wght ratio last year to run 1:32's or better (never made another attempt).......Cant wait to see what 5.5-5.7:1 does. Me thinks there will be a long line of TTA cars at the dyno and scales in September.................. Are we having fun yet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
National Staff Greg G. Posted February 19, 2007 National Staff Share Posted February 19, 2007 I understand........... It only took a 8.0:1 pwr/wght ratio last year to run 1:32's or better (never made another attempt).......Cant wait to see what 5.5-5.7:1 does. Me thinks there will be a long line of TTA cars at the dyno and scales in September.................. Are we having fun yet I think it's going to be great to see what you and the other TTU/TTR and ST1/SU guys do this year. I think that we may see a fair amount of TTA cars on the dyno as well, but I think this will make the competition tighter in TTA than it was last year. And yep, I drove last weekend at Willow Springs, so I'm having fun now And, I get to drive at my favorite track in 3 1/2 weeks, so even more fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbyevo Posted February 19, 2007 Share Posted February 19, 2007 And yep, I drove last weekend at Willow Springs, so I'm having fun now And, I get to drive at my favorite track in 3 1/2 weeks, so even more fun. Blah, blah, blah. I'm going to go shovel some more snow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Shawn M. Posted February 19, 2007 Members Share Posted February 19, 2007 Blah, blah, blah. I'm going to go shovel some more snow. Perplexing. Yes, indeed. What is this.... SNOW in which you speak? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAFTRACER Posted February 19, 2007 Author Share Posted February 19, 2007 Blah, blah, blah. I'm going to go shovel some more snow. Perplexing. Yes, indeed. What is this.... SNOW in which you speak? Give me your address and I will send you some of this foreign material coupled with a bunch of ice......it however may all be in liquid form , by the time it reaches you........... We've been getting hammered around here lately, fortuneatly for us it is all starting to melt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbyevo Posted February 19, 2007 Share Posted February 19, 2007 We should save some and fill his car up with it at Nationals.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Shawn M. Posted February 19, 2007 Members Share Posted February 19, 2007 We should save some and fill his car up with it at Nationals.... COOL!! Ill bring the flavoring!! Its like a giant shave ice or something, right?? Im gonna go Google SNOW....... must lurn!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.