New to race world, what kind of car?

[FrankerX]

Hey everyone. I'm moving to Phoenix AZ to attend UTI this august and want to become involved in the racing community. I'm going to have to buy a car out there, and would like one that could be used as sort of a weekend racer. I want something competitive, but I'm on a budget. I'm pretty good with cars so modification won't be a problem. Any suggestions? Thanks for the help.

[bmw22]

944-Spec would be a good choice in AZ. The 944 would be a car you could race in GTS Challenge, PCA, SCCA ITS, 44Cup. If you want to spend less dollars and still have a good dependable car, then a 1st generation RX7 would serve you well. You can find race-ready RX7s for less than $4000.

[NASA Jim]

I recommend a 1st Gen Sentra SE-R. They can be had cheap, get good gas mileage and come with a great, torquey 2L motor and was one of Car and Driver's 10 Best when they first came out.

 

This is for a daily-driver/weekend racer or just a dedicated race car?

[FrankerX]

Thanks a lot for the replies. The car would be used for short daily drives during the week and for road racing during weekends. Some guy I know recommended a BMW E36 325is and another a civic, then the two of them proceded to argue for half an hour. The 944 would be great, but I hear maintanence is expensive. The SE-R was something I was considering also. What do you guys think of the cars I mentioned above? Thanks again for the quick replies.

[NASA Jim]

Well, the Civic would probably cost less to maintain and be more fuel efficient, but the BMW would have more performance stock. It also depends on the year of the Civic and what your priorities are. There is probably a pretty good price difference between the two, although it sounds like you'll be doing most of the maintenance yourself which will keep costs down.

 

If you can spend the money, I'd say get the 325. If you need to save, I still say go with the SE-R over the Civic.

[FrankerX]

Yeah I would definitely go with the SE-R over the civic, actually, that looks like the way I'll be heading, as I really just want to start racing. What does it take to prepare a SE-R for the course? I figure shocks, springs, sway bars, exhaust, wheels, tires, brakes..... am I missing anything? Are modifications pricey for the car? Are the cars reliable? What is the best model year for these applications? Thanks again, I really appreciate all your help.

[tapaule]

The engine in the 1991 to 1993 SE-Rs can eaily be replaced with an imported one from japan cheaply (around $300 here in LA). The 1994 and up SE-Rs all have what is called the "low port" motor, which is harder to find and more expensive.

 

A custom roll cage is a little more pricey than an Autopower to start, but the custom will be cheaper in the long run and can easily best the Autopower from a safety and chassis rigidity standpoint.

 

The SE-R cup has a great rule that keeps the field level and lets you start out modding the car slowly, the 16:1 power to weight rule. There's no point to build a motor, as you can gut the car down to 2200 pounds and not have to add more than a header and intake to make about the right power for the weight.

 

Also, there's a couple guys in AZ that are building SE-Rs unless their plans have changed.

[NASA Jim]

What does it take to prepare a SE-R for the course? I figure shocks, springs, sway bars, exhaust, wheels, tires, brakes..... am I missing anything? Are modifications pricey for the car? Are the cars reliable? What is the best model year for these applications?

 

The cars are reliable, yes and the motors are really durable. From different mishaps we've found out that the stock motor will run 3 or 4 laps on a 3 mile track at race speed with no water before giving up. Sucks when you forget to tighten those hoses.

 

I would recommend a 1991-1994 Sentra SE-R. You could go with an NX (hatchback variant) of the same year, but they are hard to find without t-tops and you'll have fewer body options, although the NX does have a lower CG. The newer 1995-1998 200SX SE-R is an option, but has a beam rear suspension which requires some custom work to get the factory toe in taken out. The original SE-R, or "Classic" as it is often called, is probably the best compromise because it has the independent rear suspension and is plentiful and cheap. Mods are pretty cheap because the SE-R community are renown cheap bastards and the cars themselves are cheap. Who's gonna buy a $1000 header for a $750 car?

 

Shocks are probably the most important because shortened ones are necessary for the car. This is probably the single most expensive bit you will buy in prepping an SE-R for racing. I'd recommend the Shigspeeds (made by Norcal SE-R enthusiast Scott Higashi) or the Advance Designs from Ground Control. Both are dual adjustable and rebuildable, so should pretty much last you forever.

 

For springs, if you are going to drive on the street, I'd start with maybe 350#/250#. They will provide a lot of performance compared to stock, but won't create too harsh a ride.

 

I would keep the swaybars stock- actually a lot of racers still use the stock front bar, but eventually you will want to upgrade to the Progress Auto adjustable rear swaybar.

 

A low back pressure exhaust makes a huge improvement on these motors, but they are usually droning and loud and not that fun on the street. But, if you don't mind it, get a 2.5" cat back- several people make them. The stock catalytic converter is excellent and flow well, so don't worry about it. Definitely go with a Hotshot header- if you wait a bit their new Gen 6 header is about to come out and will be impressive. They are a little on the expensive side, but they are the best header you can get.

 

Go for a JWT Pop Charger intake, they are only about $100 from Courtesy in Texas. Courtesy also sells the NX "big brake" upgrade. SE-Rs have smaller brakes than the NX, but the upgrade is just OEM parts. It goes for like $420 (including core) but you can probably find it cheaper from the junkyard or local auto parts store. http://www.courtesyparts.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=CP&Product_Code=99995-B13KT

 

Make sure you get the 257x26mm rotors, using the SE-R ones is a common mistake when upgrading to the NX brakes.

 

Wheels and tires, yes. You can get 15" wheels from later 200SXs which will work great for a street/track tire. They are 15x6 and can be had cheap. The Classic comes stock with 14x5.5s which won't fit over the NX brakes. If you have money to burn, get 15x7 wheels in a 35 or even 30 offset if you can find it. That offset will give you more clearance for the suspension and fit inside the stock fenders.

 

Other things to consider are cams/ecu and radiator. Jim Wolf Technologies (JWT) makes a lot of different cams and has a popular ecu upgrade. I'd recommend shopping around the SE-R boards for a used one. I got my ECU and S3 cams used for less than $700 and that was a few years ago. The S series cams are their "street" cams. All SE-R Cup racers use the S over the C (competition series) since it provides a wider powerband and flatter torque curve. This is probably one of the mods you will want to save for later when you get itching for more power.

 

The radiator is something that you'll have to always consider. Some cars like to run hot on the track and some stay cool with the stock radiator for a long time. Depends a lot of driving style, too. Keep an eye on your temps at the track, as soon as that needle starts to move, get off the gas. The stock needle is dampened, so as soon as it starts to move, you are about to overheat.

 

But, like I said, some cars run cool. If you get a hot one, their are a lot of steps up. The NX comes with a bigger radiator- you can probably find it for cheap. NISMO makes a slightly more efficient radiator about the same size as the NX radiator. Or you can go with a Koyo, which is the biggest but will run you about $400. I'd wait until you start to have problems before upgrading.

 

So, were I you, I would upgrade in this order:

 

1. 15" 200SX wheels and NX brakes ($600 for both). Get 205/50 Falken Azenis tires, they are cheap and good ($350 - $400 mounted and balanced). The Classic just looks better with bigger wheels.

 

2. Shigspeed suspension with 300/250 springs (this is pricey- you'll likely spend more than you paid for the car, but remember this can be rebuilt and will last you forever- even when you start racing with 650# springs). Don't think you'll save money by getting AGXs or something cheaper- you will just be getting rid of them eventually and then you'll buy the good stuff. Better start off right and save the money. Shigs and ADs also have good resale value if you ever decide to give up your car.

 

3. JWT Pop charger intake, Hotshot header ($650 for both)

 

4. cat-back exhaust or muffler of your liking (depends, probably a couple hundred)

 

5. Used JWT ECU and cams. ($700 or so)

 

Get a bigger radiator whenever you need it (probably not until after the cams). Also, once you do those 5 steps, you can start thinking about bushing kits, motor mounts, and replacing the stock, probably burnt-out limited slip diff.

 

Hope that gets you off on a good start.

[FrankerX]

NASA Jim, wow. Thank you so much for all the information. I really appreciate it. It seems like I can get into racing for much cheaper than I expected. It's great to know that there are message boards like this out there to help when you're in a bind. My thanks again.

[Zee]

Is there anything inherently bad (ex. unsafe for racing?) about the T-top model?

[NASA Jim]

Is there anything inherently bad (ex. unsafe for racing?) about the T-top model?

 

I wouldn't say unsafe, but I would say inconvenient. T-tops were only offered in the NX and were quite common after 1991. The SE-R doesn't have t-tops, but almost all have a sunroof that can be easily covered. The NX t-tops are another matter since the T-top is part of the structure of the roof. It is possible to weld in some reinforcement and recover it permanently, but it will take some work and a visit to the body shop. You could also permantely attach the t-top panels, but that would require welding as well and they are fairly heavy. I think there are additional cage requirements in the SE-R Cup for t-top models.

 

An the other hand, you could run without the t-tops in, sacrificing a little rigidity, but saving some weight. If you go this route, you'll have to wear arm restraints- like the open top racers- to keep your arms in the car in the event of an accident.

[NASA Jim]

NASA Jim, wow. Thank you so much for all the information. I really appreciate it. It seems like I can get into racing for much cheaper than I expected. It's great to know that there are message boards like this out there to help when you're in a bind. My thanks again.

 

No problem. SR was designed to be a realtively chap class to get into. There are a few dedicated racers out there now and we're all happy to help new people. Check out the SE-R Cup website at http://www.sercup.com. It has links to the mailing list which has lots of good archive info if you have time to read it. It is also where we discussed rules creation, so if you are wondering why something is a rule, the discussion can be found in the archive.

 

The SE-R community is pretty strong and close group. You can check out more at http://sr20forum.com/ and the national SERCA (SE-R Club of America) is having their national convention soon in Southern California. http://www.serca.org for more info.