The Ladder to Competition Racing

[superspec15]

Hey guys uber noob here!

I have been researching NASA for a while now and I attended my first HPDE event last weekend. I caught the bug. I am very intrested in moving up the ladder all the way to competition racing. I know its a long way away but I wanted to get some input on what others have done; how you guys made it to comp racing. I have looked around on the forums and read some posts where some guys buy a car like a miata or e30 and slowly build it up to spec as they move up groups in HPDE. Any feed back would be great! thanks!

[Ultimate Altima]

Buying a car for a spec class is a good idea. Go up through the levels of HPDE in 1.5 to 2 season, then maybe move on to TT, all the while making the car less streetable and better for the track. Once you get bored with TT, gut it, add saftey gear and make it a Wheel to Wheel car. Build the car for a class, Spec Focus, H4 Honda challenge, CMC, whatever, have fun. I've been around grassroots motorsports for a little over 2 yrs and did my first event less than a month ago, but I've done plenty of dreaming since then.

 

Note: all ideas come from the mind of a 16 yr old with bottomless pockets.

[white_2kgt]

I started out in 02 in HPDE1 with a mostly stock mustang, had some suspension stuff done to it. Over the years progressed up to HPDE3 while adding roll bars, seats, harnesses, removed bits of the interior here and there, upgraded brakes, put on a hitch so I could tow my R compound tires to the track, etc. Then bought a truck, trailer so I could do all the brake pad/rotor/tire swapping in the garage and tow the car to the track. Then had a minor incident in 05 with a guardrail at the last event of the season (not NASA). After that the car got gutted and a cage put in, then I took comp school at VIR and started racing American Iron last year. Now that they have the TT program that is an excellent place to go from HPDE3 to get a taste of competition.

[Jeff D]

I'd get on track in a few events with whatever you currently have carwise first. The lessons you learn in the beginning apply regardless of what you are driving, so as long as it's a CAR (no dumptrucks, RV's, etc. ), is safe, and can pass tech you're good. One thing you could splurge on initially is a good SA-rated full face helmet. If you already have an older, M-rated, open face, etc, etc, helmet that's fine but a good quality SA helmet will take you through HPDE, TT, and all the way into w2w racing.

 

Talk to folks in your region and learn more about the popular classes. Figure out what works best for you and where you would like to start before buying a car. As far as a w2w car goes you are better off buying an already race prepped car than starting from scratch. The guys/gals running in a particular class are usually willing to offer advice and often times might know of someone with a good race ready car they plan to sell. You can run HPDE's in a race ready car but obviously if you are in group 1 or want an instructor ride along you need a passinger seat. Also if it's fully race prepped it needs to be towed to the track so be sure and plan ahead.

 

Take your time learning in the HPDE ranks, have fun, and welcome to NASA!

[Gfaules]

Hey guys uber noob here!

I have been researching NASA for a while now and I attended my first HPDE event last weekend. I caught the bug. I am very intrested in moving up the ladder all the way to competition racing. I know its a long way away but I wanted to get some input on what others have done; how you guys made it to comp racing. I have looked around on the forums and read some posts where some guys buy a car like a miata or e30 and slowly build it up to spec as they move up groups in HPDE. Any feed back would be great! thanks!

 

When asking how others have gone up the racing ladder it's important to remember people come from all sorts of backgrounds. Some have a very good understanding of automotive, some have been involved with carts since they were little while others are mechanics or shop owners who can build whatever they want and so on. Like Forest Gump said, "Many different shoes." Everyone will climb a rung at a time but some will get to the top sooner than others. None of that is important. What is important is that you rise to the top having gotten the most out of each rung as possible. Last weekend I saw a driver running at Infineon with a license and I had to ask myself how in the hell did he ever get a licence. Either he missed a few rungs or his ladder doesn't go to the top floor.

 

After getting started with cars I realized I didn't want to wreck while learning to drive fast I looked around and found many classes of used race cars were for sale for pennies on the dollar. Many times guys are moving up into another class or for various other reasons and these cars are typically set up to go race. NOBODY ever gets their money back from a race car and you can never build one for what you can buy a good used car for. In retrospect, what has worked extremely well for me and my kids.

 

In my opinion there is one element of the equation here that is missing in this thread... COACHING. Many years ago I was involved with a sport I loved and I began going to clubs to get involved in it. I asked everyone how they got started, watched how they did things and copied everyone and whenever I watched the local club champions I was in awe as I wished I could be as good as them. Years after eventually becoming an Olympian in that very sport I look back and realized my single biggest mistake was not getting coaching early on. In reality what I did in those early years was LEARN BAD HABITS and lots of them. It's a fact that it takes far longer to get rid of bad habits than it is to learn good ones. There are many good books on this very subject. For me, the exact same things happened with driving as with the Olympic sport I was involved with in that after I got GOOD coaching my ability to perform accelerated 100 times faster than had I not received coaching. In turn I saved thousands of dollars over time. And finding good coaches is easier said than done since there are some excellent ones within NASA's ranks. Furthermore, remember you don't have to hire a driving coach for every weekend at the track. Most good coaches can help you improve within your first ride with them and they will advise you what needs work and when you are ready you get together again and so on. When things begin to work it's as if someone just turned on a light and you will know. Good coaching cost less than you may think.

[spazegun2213]

superspec,

Now that you're hooked, you're in the right place for guidance. I'll tell you a little about myself. I started HPDEing in late 05 and got hooked. I recently purchased a subaru sti and loved how it felt on track. After 05 and into the middle of 06 i went to every event i could find and the faster i went the more i realized that i should not be Pushing my sti on track because if something were to happen, I'd be without a car. I sold all the track parts for the car and went on a race car search. I ended up with a 944 cup car (for not a lot) that suited my needs. I spent the rest of 06 tracking that and preparing for the nasa comp school. I attended the comp school in february of this year, and have been racing ever since.

 

I attended every HPDE i could in 06 and was at the track almost every weekend. I learned a TON, but the biggest thing i learned is no matter how go you are you can always get better. Having an instructor is a good thing (assuming they are a good instructor), they pick up on your bad habits and commend you on your good ones.

 

I would recommend that you assess your money situation, see what you can afford as far as seat time. Continue with your current car for a while, and you can either turn that into a race car, or look for one (and trust me buying is cheaper then building). Either way, money spend on seat time is worth more than money spend anywhere else. That and after enough seat time you'll know what you want to do.

 

good luck

-Ross

[superspec15]

Gfaules,

Do you suggest that I stay in HPDE groups 1&2 for a little while to gain the basic knowledge, and good habits? This past weekend I met a really awesome instructor. He drives in spec E30. He suggested that for every new track that I go to I sign up in group 1 so that I learn the racing line right the first time. I am also sure that when I am in group 3 or 4 he would be willing to come along with me in a sesson, and give me some pointers.

[superspec15]

Do most guys buy there first car and then build the next? I think a lot of the fun of w2w racing is building and working on the car.

[white_2kgt]

Gfaules,

Do you suggest that I stay in HPDE groups 1&2 for a little while to gain the basic knowledge, and good habits? This past weekend I met a really awesome instructor. He drives in spec E30. He suggested that for every new track that I go to I sign up in group 1 so that I learn the racing line right the first time. I am also sure that when I am in group 3 or 4 he would be willing to come along with me in a sesson, and give me some pointers.

 

Once you get comfortable on track w/ your car you will be bored to tears in HPDE1, even at a new track. After you are in HPDE2 at your 'home' track if you go somewhere new stay in 2. They will be learning the real simple stuff at first that you already know and just holding you back. Just don't goto 2 until you and your instructor are comfortable.

[Frank Corkran]

Do most guys buy there first car and then build the next? I think a lot of the fun of w2w racing is building and working on the car.

 

Most guys seem to make the same mistake you are being warned about, and often for the same reason you mention. It's one of the most common mistakes there is. You'll have plenty to work on just getting a good used race car set up just right for you. Once you get comfortable racing, then you'll be in a better position to decide if you'd like to build your "dream car". Of course if you decide that spending the extra time and money (lots of it) to build your street car into your race car is worth the wait/expense, at least you'll be making an informed decision instead of backing into it like many end up doing.

[Gfaules]

Gfaules,

Do you suggest that I stay in HPDE groups 1&2 for a little while to gain the basic knowledge, and good habits? This past weekend I met a really awesome instructor. He drives in spec E30. He suggested that for every new track that I go to I sign up in group 1 so that I learn the racing line right the first time. I am also sure that when I am in group 3 or 4 he would be willing to come along with me in a sesson, and give me some pointers.

 

SS15,

 

Absolutely not. When you move up from groups into the next level it is not because you only have a competent understanding of the specific track that you have been running on. Before anyone moves up to the next level it's because he or she has the basics they need to take that next step. If you do not have the full understanding of what intended to learn in groups 1 and 2 then nobody would have signed you off in the first place. It's very important to not feel as if you have to move up simply because some one else tells you, "It only took me "X" amount of time." It's equally important to move up when you personally feel you are ready. All tracks have a few surprises but even at group 3 speeds due to good driver's meetings and having a qualified NASA instructor there is no reason you would need to be dropped to groups 1 or 2. Most rookies that use their heads will say to themselves, "Hey, that turn looks just like the one that I ran on at track "XYZ" thus you will begin to find you are your own best instructor.

 

Regarding good instruction, another good point to remember is get as many instructors under your belt as you can. Many times you will find that you "click" better with some than you do with others. And don't be afraid to find out if the person who is willing to help is any good or not. Back in my younger days I found myself infatuated with competitors in my sport who I assumed were really good simply because they were a hell of a lot better than I was. In the long run I realized just because they were better than me it didn't mean they were teaching me what I should be learning. For a personal coach find someone who has lots of wins and track experience and not necessarily local club champions. On the other hand there is no need to spend lots of wasted cash on some of the high end driving schools either. After you have plenty of seat time in group 1, 2 and 3 start asking who the local hot-shoes with records under their belt are. You will find they will be more than happy to help for a token fee.

[Bruce L.]

lots of good advice here already.

Also check out the book at http://www.goaheadtakethewheel.com - it has a lot of practical advice, lays out what to expect and suggests ways to do things on a budget.

 

cheers,

bruce

[superspec15]

Thanks a lot guys, I really appreciate the help!

thanks leggwork, just ordered the book

[Renntag]

That is a good book to start with and then there are many many more to move on with from there. It is a very good move to start reading as this will help you avoid the mistakes mentioned in earlier posts.

 

best of luck.

[granracing]

I guess I won't go into how I got into the whole racing thing since you'll find out soon enough. Thanks Bruce.

 

I agree with much of what Gfaules said about obtaining coaching. Many people get hung up with what run group level they are in and trying to move to a point where they are no longer required to have an instructor in the car. I don't care what level run group people are in - take advantage of the instructors at the track!! This also goes for people in advanced groups and instructors themselves. A couple of weeks ago I was at Watkins Glen for a HPDE. When one of my friends who was also instructing at the event told me he wasn't going out for the next run group, guess where I had him sit? He made a suggestion about how to enter turn one, which was slightly different than what I was doing. I tried it, and at the end of the straight after that turn I gained 5 mph. Awesome!

 

At HPDEs, you can get them in your car for no extra cost. As previously mentioned, you will find that some will suit you better than others. After you've learned more, it can be very beneficial to hire a professional coach. I didn't realize that this can often be done for $300 - $500. I hired someone to help me with racecraft (not learning racing lines) for a June HPDE, and someone else later this year for a Mid Ohio event. I'm skipping a race event to afford this, but guarantee it will provide better results than if I spent it on a go-fast part. Coaching should never end!! Take a look at the pros out there (Andretti, Shumacher, ect.). They all have coaches even as good as they are.

 

O.k. I'll stop blabbering. LOL