Backdate to steel control arms

[Chris Benbow]

I'm thinking it is the prudent thing to do with my '86 that currently has the aluminum control arms in place. The older ones are more resilient and allow ball joint replacement.

My question is what will be involved in making the change? Is it just the arms or do I have to change other parts as well?

[PeanutinCA]

Chris,

I just had Steve Alarcon change my ball joints on my late model arms. The kit was about $90 for stock parts. If you backdate to steel arms, you have a narrower track so would require spacers I imagine. Plus different tie rods and the possibly some other pieces?

 

P.Dilly.

[Chris Benbow]

That's what I'm afraid of, all that track change and other stuff. At the same time I'm a bit concerned about the late model aluminum ones breaking and failing on me. The ball joints are less of a concern b/c as you point out they can be changed even in the late model part.

[jjgrow]

http://www.blaszakprecision.com/Control_Arms.html

 

I have the arms in figure 1, though it doesn't address the back-dating issue for late model cars. I think their control arms for later cars are currenly illegal in our class.

[Chris Benbow]

Why are they illegal in later cars? We can update and backdate parts can't we?

[Tom #16]

They use spherical bushings (metal) instead of rubber ones.

[jjgrow]

Why are they illegal in later cars? We can update and backdate parts can't we?

 

I meant the aftermarket tubular arms are out of spec not the reinforced OEM arms. What are the other 85.5+ cars doing about their arms? Maybe its not that hard to backdate?

[944-Spec#94]

for an 85.5 or 86 car you can back date to steel arms with no change in track. It is infact a simple swap. All you need the early arms, caster block and will need to adjust the sway bar mount. I Belive, but could be wrong, that the early ball joints pins are the same size as the aluminum ones and therefore you just pop them in to the existing spindles. Keep the same wheels and steering tie rods.

 

For 87 and 88 cars the swap is harder due to offset change. The late control arms are physically longer than the early ones so you'd need to swap tie rods and possibly spindles. To maintian the stock track you would need a set of early offset wheels. Of course in the back you would have late offset wheels. Not a probelm, but certainly an inconveniece that limits tire rotations. You could also swap rear suspension to go with early offest aluimium rear arms, to get all early offset, but that just costs more money.

 

Right now the rules do NOT allow any aftermarket control arms. Only stock steel or stock aluminum. The possbility of modding stock steel arms is not address in the rules and could be limited under the "does not say it can't do it clause", but it is not entirely clear.

 

 

BTW... Check on Rennlist for steel arm sway procedure for an 86. In fact Skip from paragon has done this on his 86 944 NA.

[Tim Comeau]

Yeah guys, All the 944's have the same stock track width. It's just that it's achieved with different components.

[PeanutinCA]

Ahh yeah, my mistake for thinking of my car and not Chris' which is an 86. Joe is right, the 85.5 and 86 used narrower A arms from my understanding too. So less of a hassle.

 

P.Dilly.

[Chris Benbow]

Thanks for the input guys.

I spoke with Marcus Blaszak this morning about his reinforced steel control arms. These are the ones that Jeff has on his car. He was able to confirm that the backdate is as Joe described and only requires the arms, caster block and appropriate bushings. His arms are stock Bilstein parts that have welded reinforcments at the inboard (leading and trailing) mounting points and a sandwich plate over the sway bar mounting area. Apparently heavier sway bars have been known to cause cracking at this portion of the steel arms. Otherwise the arms are stock. The website is somewhat misleading as the example pictured has metal bushings but his are shipped with rubber ones.

I'm thinking I'll get a pair for my own personal safety. I don't see any competitive advantage and perhaps a slight disadvantage due to unsprung weight. He apparently has >200 sets out there in track/race environments without any failures.

[PeanutinCA]

So what do us 87/88 guys do without spending a bunch of money? Is it really an issue with the Aluminum arms. Will I crash and burn!!

 

P.Dilly.

[Tim Comeau]

Reinforcement of the steel A-arms is legal in the POC rules because it's a safety mod with no performance advantage. I support that. I don't expect many failures in our suspension components because we only run 225 tires that aren't very sticky. Also, our cars are lighter than stock.

[Spec-944#70]

You late model guys have what 10 more HP than the rest of us. Please let us have something!! More HP, short 5th gear whah, whah, whah. And you're still behind me!!

See ya,

[PeanutinCA]

Oh, so you didn't put the 5th gear in then Mr. Eric? And, what weight are you at? And, what hp, have you dyno'd the car lately? I would keep it quiet Mr. Eric (I'm looking for an 88 engine) Sorensen.

 

And I thought it was only 8 hp or something?

 

Still behind you? I don't know, you didn't come on the weekend. Did you run a 1:39.7 in your car yet? Hmmm, interesting, verwy verwy interesting!

 

Smack down!

[Spec-944#70]

Yes, Yes and Yes. I was looking for an 88 and may get one, one of these days. I did run a 1:39.9 but I'm consistant in the 1:40's now. As for the weight I'm legal. Nothing illegal has been done to my car and never will. If an 88 motor ever comes up for the right price I may go for it but for right now I'm happy with mine as it's not leaking, doesn't overheat and runs well. Even if I'm 8 HP off of your engines potential. If I ever get my motor dyno'd and it's putting out 127+ I may just leave it as spending that kind of money for 5-8 HP deosn't seem worth it.

"To finish first, you must first finish"

[Tim Comeau]

Not to mention the headache of converting the wiring harness, etc.

Keep it stock.

When can we swap cars, Eric? I'd like to see a dyno sheet on your car, too.

[Spec-944#70]

NO dyno sheets yet!! Maybe we can swap at BW.

[PeanutinCA]

Do the dyno Eric? Aren't you curious? I'm going to try get there tomorrow if I get the car back from paint in the morning? I want a before and after picture. Beforefixing the stutter/fuel issue and cat on, versus the after fix and cat removal.

 

I would agree, that engine in my old car, Jason's car is running just dandy now that the head gasket is replaced. I think it was running just dandy before the overheat issue too? Therefore I don't think the hp is the issue? I think it's how well it runs? Right now my $700 parts 88 is not running as fast as your early cars down the front straights. But what choice do I have now? I must fix it and it will come.

 

P.Dilly.

[Tim Comeau]

Holy Crap that was a good price.............$700.00. Good for you!

[PeanutinCA]

Well I bought it for parts, 5th gear etc. With the intention that if it look like not too big a job I would take say 6 months to build it up myself. In the end, I had to build it up quicker. I figuerd I couldn't lose. If it looked like to big a bag-o-bolts I would take the tranny and part out the rest and regain some of my money. Probably could have ended up with a free short 5th gear. But in the end, the surgery bills forced a sale. DOH!

[944-Spec#94]

For $700 you can't go wrong!

 

The pistons alone are worth big bucks even if the block rest of the car are trash. Clearly you have the short 5th gear, a set of wheels, a tub, and 88 pistons with 88 DME & fuel injection. All pretty good.

 

 

A year ago I picked -up and 83 944 for practically nothing. Manual steering rack, a set of cookies, engine block, spare head, and tub made it all worth it.

 

With a little tinkering and only a few $$ my father and I got the car into driving shape and are autocrossing it until we need the parts. Heck even the A/C works. Not a bad deal.