Does it get much clearer than this? (SCCA vs NASA)

[99HOSS]

This week in AutoWeek, the following was found in a story about this years SCCA Runoff's in Topeka.

Robert Davis, Mazda senior vice president and head of the company's racing program, said his company is "trying to spread our support more evenly among the SCCA and [the National Auto Sport Association]. SCCA is better known, but I would say right now NASA is better run."

 

... and to continue from the same story -

Jim Julow, former Dodge executive and now SCCA president and CEO. NASA is the SCCA's biggest competitor and seems to appeal to a younger demographic. Julow admits that there's room for improvement. "We're still struggling to get membership where we want it, and we're still struggling to get participation in club racing.

[Renntag]

I was a long time SCCA member and after my first NASA event....well I have missed only ONE event since.

 

thanks Mike.

[AU N EGL]

OUCH. but good for MAZDA.

 

IMO SCCA is tooooo organized. So organized that results can not be found on the website with out work. Too much detail, too short of races. Too many competitors that and splitting the race weekends. Some races one weekend other races an other weekend.

 

NASA is getting the racing right. Just the right length with some regions bring in endors.

 

Plus the HPDE starts training ppl early. and these students get to watch races on the same weekends.

[Renntag]

what are endors?

[jon dawes]

what are endors?

 

duh! endors-vay! actually Endor is home to the Ewoks. . . so Ewoks could also be "endors".

 

i only know what i've experienced of SCCA and NASA and so far NASA has been a great community!

[RodeoFlyer]

SCCA is a "CLUB", whereas NASA is a business - a well oiled machine actually IMO

 

My experience with NASA has been absolutely awesome. I found the SCCA environment to be very stuffy and cliquey. I also find that NASA's rules are much more competitor-friendly. NASA is a much more laid back and friendly crowd.

[Knestis]

As a member of both organizations (with 25 years into the SCCA), I think they are simply different. Whether one thinks one is better than the other depends on his or her priorities but there's no question that each is the other's biggest "competitor."

 

I put that in quotes because I'm not really sure why folks (officials/owners, members/customers, whatever) think of it in those terms. I do know that there's a pretty solid group of drivers in the mid-Atlantic area who happily run under both sanctions, depending on what they want to accomplish on a given weekend.

 

Kirk

[nasaregistrar]

As a member of both organizations (with 25 years into the SCCA), I think they are simply different. Whether one thinks one is better than the other depends on his or her priorities but there's no question that each is the other's biggest "competitor."

 

I put that in quotes because I'm not really sure why folks (officials/owners, members/customers, whatever) think of it in those terms. I do know that there's a pretty solid group of drivers in the mid-Atlantic area who happily run under both sanctions, depending on what they want to accomplish on a given weekend.

 

Kirk

The MA region has the pleasure of hosting a growing number of cross-over racers from SCCA. Knestis is only just one of them. NASA will accept an SCCA Race license as the basis for a Provisional NASA license.That makes it easier to go from SCCA to NASA. It doesn't work in the other direction though. In the MA region, this does require Regional Director Approval.

[granracing]

I realize there's often a "NASA vs. SCCA" attitude, but between BOTH clubs we're talking about around 65,000 - 70,000 members in the U.S. I personally would love to see both clubs grow significantly. Competition between the clubs is a good thing. I also that sometimes the focus becomes NASA vs. NASA instead of both clubs working towards the same goal - make motorsports attainable for the average American. I know, pass me another drink. LOL

[austincrx]

Just to put this out there

 

 

I've been an SCCA member for a long time and SCCA has it's positives and negatives, but so does NASA. Lets not say who's better, lets say how can we make each other better, we are after the same result after all, good, clean RACING!!!

[tom91ita]

I realize there's often a "NASA vs. SCCA" attitude, but between BOTH clubs we're talking about around 65,000 - 70,000 members in the U.S. I personally would love to see both clubs grow significantly. Competition between the clubs is a good thing. I also that sometimes the focus becomes NASA vs. NASA instead of both clubs working towards the same goal - make motorsports attainable for the average American. I know, pass me another drink. LOL

 

Dave,

 

did you get the total by adding the two memberships?

 

because the vast majority of racers that i know are in both clubs. not sure about the HPDE folks. but for the wheel to wheel, that has been my experience. same with some folks in grid, i see some folks at both club's events. likely also varies a great deal with areas/regions.

 

i wonder, are there are any hard numbers out there of how many people have "dual" memberships?

[Renntag]

.... both clubs working towards the same goal - make motorsports attainable for the average American. I know, pass me another drink. LOL

 

Dave, I'll drink to that !!!

[chuck schultz]

because the vast majority of racers that i know are in both clubs. not sure about the HPDE folks. but for the wheel to wheel, that has been my experience.

As somebody who's spent a bunch of days on corners at track days, there seems to be a core group that show up at every event, no matter who's paying the track rental. There are many who only run with one group, but plenty who play with everybody they can afford to.

[Jan in Omaha]

because the vast majority of racers that i know are in both clubs. not sure about the HPDE folks. but for the wheel to wheel, that has been my experience.

As somebody who's spent a bunch of days on corners at track days, there seems to be a core group that show up at every event, no matter who's paying the track rental. There are many who only run with one group, but plenty who play with everybody they can afford to.

 

Now there's a fact. I go to SCCA, NASA, BMWCCA, PCA, and track sponsored events. I was at 32 different events last year. Solo, RallyX, TSD rally, DE's, Time Trials, and Club race flagging.

[Orkboyz]

I'm of the opinion the NASA vs. SCCA pros and cons generally start at the regional level. I cannot speak to other NASA regions since I have not attended NASA events outside my own. However, I've attended SCCA events in several different regions. With the exception of occasional local tweaks, rules are the same. It is how those rules are implemented and the personality of those running the show that seem to cause the issues.

[Renntag]

Early on it was the cliques that turned me away.

I was on my own and didnt have the support network that I found in NASA. That doesnt mean that had I started with SCCA at a different time, some where else, things wouldnt have been better.

[JackBaruth]

NASA has no "institutional memory". That's good and bad.

 

It's good in the sense that those of us who are NASA members and racers now are basically where the SCCA guys were in the Fifties. People talk to each other, there's no tremendous effort to demean or discourage new competitors, and the ownership is willing to settle issues by a show of hands at the drivers' meeting.

 

Also, those of us who are in our twenties or thirties starting off in SCCA racing can find it a bit frustrating that most of the National classes appear to be either designed for barely-modded new cars or 1956 Humbert Bumblepuppies, and there are guys who have fifty-one years of experience racing the Bumblepuppy and tuning it, and you'll never catch 'em, and they're cheating in ways you can't begin to understand.

 

It's bad in the sense that those of us who are NASA members and racers now are basically where the SCCA guys were in the Fifties. We're re-making mistakes that were made and fixed a long time ago in the SCCA.

 

Here's the thing, though: Having two clubs allows more people to race on a given weekend, and that's an excellent thing. There are only so many drivers you can have in a race weekend at a particular track. So there's room for both.

 

Before I shut up, I will say that for me a big part of my decision to begin my racing career in NASA instead of the SCCA was the choice to move the Runoffs to HPT. It's bad enough I have to go there once a year for Solo Nationals.

[tom91ita]

there are guys who have fifty-one years of experience racing the Bumblepuppy and tuning it, and you'll never catch 'em, and they're cheating in ways you can't begin to understand.

 

agreed.

 

at least at NASA events, they were cheating in ways i could understand....

[Bruce L.]

there are guys who have fifty-one years of experience racing the Bumblepuppy and tuning it, and you'll never catch 'em, and they're cheating in ways you can't begin to understand.

 

agreed.

 

at least at NASA events, they were cheating in ways i could understand....

 

 

LOL, yeah, like that guy running in TT that posted pictures and description of how he hid a lightweight battery inside a display battery shell, and later it was pointed out that lightweight batteries are allowed...

[bbeasley]

I have more fun at NASA events than any other. But the final straw for me was the Heartland Park thing. To change from a famous, classic track like Mid O to Heartland Park is a cram down and slap in the face. Go NASA!

 

I live 985 miles, one way, from Mid O and 919 miles one way from Heartland Park.

[austincrx]

I agree with ORKBOYZ. both clubs are basically the same, and many rules are exactly the same, but the problem comes with some of the people that run things. i can't speak for NASA, but i know many SCCA events i've been to have their share of assholes in the 'executive' positions. And at the same time i think the same goes for NASA.

 

I think that some people take things too seriously, and I'm not saying that racing isn't serious at every level, but I am saying that sometimes a small minute detail can be overlooked. For example: I was at a local autocross and wanted to ride with one of the guys i knew that always won his class. I wanted to know how he drove, I wanted to know what a faster driver could do, that i couldn't. the only problem was that I hadn't run yet, and it is illegal to ride with someone on a course before you have run it. i figured it wasn't a big deal, i usually finish last in my class anyways. But he warned me that i could be disqualified for it.

If he had protested me for this I would have been pissed. But he had every right to, i was breaking the rules. But the fact was that it wouldn't have made a difference. I was running a race tire class with street tires...no wins for me. and if i had won, everyone else would have had to have DNFed.

 

I'm not saying that their is anything wrong with protests, or disqualification, or anything like that. cheating is cheating, but just take a second, gather your thoughts, and then act!!!

[Jan in Omaha]

I have more fun at NASA events than any other. But the final straw for me was the Heartland Park thing. To change from a famous, classic track like Mid O to Heartland Park is a cram down and slap in the face. Go NASA!

 

I live 985 miles, one way, from Mid O and 919 miles one way from Heartland Park.

 

You can blame MidO for that

[944-Spec#94]

LOL, yeah, like that guy running in TT that posted pictures and description of how he hid a lightweight battery inside a display battery shell, and later it was pointed out that lightweight batteries are allowed...

 

 

That is funny stuff....

 

The difference between NASA and SCCA...

 

NASA is more flexible. NASA, like mentioned earlier has no institutional memory and is not run by committe so much as a few benovelant dictators both regionally and Nationally. What this means is NASA is not stuck with doing the old way or need to put every decision to a vote or committee. NASA can flex very quickly when needed to make what is the RIGHT decision for situation at hand.

 

Unfortuanlty this will mean NASA will make some mistakes along the way and sometimes decisions can seem to come out of left field. What will make this system work and continue to work however is skilled people at the top both regionally and nationally that can make smart decisions for the good of the NASA as a whole not just protect their little kingdom or worse themselves.

[RichardM]

This same topic comes up in rally. Only now it is Rally America vs. NASA Rally Sport.