dsullinger Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 The CCR says that H&N devices may be required starting in 2008: 15.17.8 Head and Neck Restraint Neck injuries can be severe and long lasting, and can occur even in minor collisions. Use of a head and neck restraint system is strongly recommended and may be mandatory in some series. A neck support collar is permitted, however if used, it must be covered in fire resistant material such as Nomex. Any competitor with previous neck injuries or other similar medical condition is required to wear a neck support collar or another head / neck restraint device, unless otherwise prohibited by a doctor. It is the sole responsibility of the competitor to ensure compliance with this rule. NASA will not be held responsible for enforcement. References and information can be found in “Appendix D,†Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BETO Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 Even if it doesn't change, I won't drive without it, it should be as mandatory as using a helmet no doubt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beerkat Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 I have got an R3 that I have yet to fit. I may try some TT towards the end of next year. I still just do the DEs. Went with a R3 because you could use it with a stock 3 point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dnaugle Posted November 14, 2007 Share Posted November 14, 2007 Id like to get some more info on this as well. And if it is required, will the Isaac serve as a good substitute. http://www.isaacdirect.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RodeoFlyer Posted November 14, 2007 Share Posted November 14, 2007 I'm glad this has been brought up. My concern is whether it must be an FIA approved device. The reason I ask is - what about instructors or driving coaches that would like to wear one in a car that is not equipped with harnesses? The Hutchens device is attached completely to the driver and requires no harness. It can be worn in any vehicle. It also costs half as much as a HANS or R3. I'm a firm believer in safety and have only put off buying one myself until this rule came to fruition and clarity. For racers on a budget the Isaac device is effective as well, alas also not FIA approved. It is also considerably cheaper than the HANS and R3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsullinger Posted November 14, 2007 Author Share Posted November 14, 2007 Thanks, all. The reason I'm asking is because I've enlisted a PCA club racing driver to co-drive in an enduro, and he doesn't have a device. He was asking if it was required, so I checked the CCR and found that it was kind of ambiguous. I guess if push came to shove, we could get the posts & quick releases attached to his helmet and share my HANS - my 20 medium should fit him just fine. Don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Off Camber Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 SO when will we know the result to the post question. I use a HANS but my buddy does not have one and we need to know if he is going to need to buy one. It is getting a bit late in the day to still not know the rul for 08. Thanks SteveP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renntag Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 Its still 2007. like the expression...a 10$ helmet for a 10$ head. If you like your head and neck to continue having roughly the same physical relation ship with each other for years to come....perhaps take it upon yourself to step up and get H&N protection. You never know what could happen. No one plans to crash. Would anyone hear race without a helmet if it wasnt mandated? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce L. Posted December 2, 2007 Share Posted December 2, 2007 I'm confident they would give at least six months notice of an HNR becoming mandatory, and you can also bet that SFI 38.1 will be required. cheers, bruce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingDog Posted December 3, 2007 Share Posted December 3, 2007 I'm confident they would give at least six months notice of an HNR becoming mandatory, and you can also bet that SFI 38.1 will be required.cheers, bruce Requiring SFI 38.1 is a bad idea. As far as I know, the only H&N restraint that meets the rule is HANS. The Isaac exceeds the HANS protection in almost all tests, but fails in the single release point requirement. I know a few racers who chose the Isaac because the HANS can snag when tying to climb out of a burning car. With the Isaac, you leave the whole device behind, so it's just you and a helmet that needs to fit passed the netting/wiring/cage/doorframe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianacole Posted December 3, 2007 Share Posted December 3, 2007 Would anyone hear race without a helmet if it wasnt mandated? Yah, but what if they came down and said everyone has to have a Bell helmet within the next 30 days? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renntag Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 ... everyone has to have a Bell helmet within the next 30 days? Then they (NASA) would most likely go out of business. My reason for making that comment was simple, does everyone have to be FORCED to use the latest safety equipment? I think that a little common sense should dictate that perhaps its smart to increase your safety level on your own before its mandated. NASA is not going to say "everyone must use an ACME #7 safety device in the next 30 days or tech stickers will not be issued". That is unrealistic. There will be about 6 months notice for people to comply and there will be several options. Knowing that this is on the horizon, why not take a proactive stance and do something now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianacole Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 But that's effectively what they're doing with dictating an SFI rating for a H&N device. I would prefer to use an ISAACs device, but I've been holding off buying anything as I don't want to spend the money, then have to spend it again to get the "NASA Approved" model. And I think the largest concern is that we are less than 30 days away from the requirement (ignoring the "may" in the rules) and there is still no definitive stance from NASA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renntag Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 Because there is a "may" in the rules, I firmly believe that this will NOT be mandated in jan/feb of 08. It may be mandated for july as was the side restraint. As to the ISAAC device, I dont know what to tell you. Contact NASA and contact your regional director. My experience has been that NASA is not unreasonable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce L. Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 you're behind the times! ... there are now six http://www.sfifoundation.com/manuf.html#38.1 I agree that the Isaac has some good attributes and is being excluded for the wrong reasons cheers, bruce I'm confident they would give at least six months notice of an HNR becoming mandatory, and you can also bet that SFI 38.1 will be required.cheers, bruce Requiring SFI 38.1 is a bad idea. As far as I know, the only H&N restraint that meets the rule is HANS. The Isaac exceeds the HANS protection in almost all tests, but fails in the single release point requirement. I know a few racers who chose the Isaac because the HANS can snag when tying to climb out of a burning car. With the Isaac, you leave the whole device behind, so it's just you and a helmet that needs to fit passed the netting/wiring/cage/doorframe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingDog Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 you're behind the times! ... there are now six http://www.sfifoundation.com/manuf.html#38.1 4 of which are basically the same thing... so there are 3 options. The irony in all of this is that they want to create a new rule to keep people safe, yet the unknown future of the ruling is keeping people from buying safety equipment to avoid having to replace it right away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renntag Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 ... the unknown future of the ruling is keeping people from buying safety equipment ... LOL..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_venturini Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 By NASA not letting us know what they will eventually require (SFI or not). They are doing more harm than good by requiring it. I know a number of racers (including myself) are holding off on buying the equipment cause they arent sure what will be legal and what wont. NASA- PLEASE LET US KNOW WHAT WE SHOULD GET ASAP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renntag Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 Buy a HANS. If the ruling comes down for something that would allow a different device you prefer, I would be willing to bet you could resell the HANS device with little loss. How often do you see Hans for sale used? Not that I recall, so it would seem logical that you could easily sell one. Why sacrifice safety waiting for a ruling? You have one chance to be safe. You dont get a "do over". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Izzy's Cages Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 If they'd only word it using performance #'s instead of the actual SFI spec. "Meets or exceeds SFI Spec 38.1 test numbers" would weed out Joe Bob's duct tape & bailing wire versions. The approved list would only grow by 1 or 2 versions so it's not like tech wouldn't be able to keep track. Isaac doesn't meet spec because of the lack of yoke and an extra release point, but it's performance numbers speak for themselves. Require a H&N device all you want, but let me make my own choice on which one I want to use. I took the inititave and bought an Isaac 4 years ago. There were no rules for it so I bought what I thought was the best product Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
944-Spec#94 Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 I had seen this sort of thing coming for many years. Back the fall of 2005 I just said "ENOUGH" and simply got a HANS. Although I like the Isaac I got the HANS since it was SFI38.1 certed and I knew it would be legal if any sanctioning body requried an SFI device. I have been happy with the thing and will not drive without one. At this point I don't care if they require one or not. I have an 38.1 approved device and will use it. Those thinking about getting something just go and do it. NASA has been hinting at this for years and maybe they will and maybe they won't get a SFI38.1 device and never worry about it again. Plust should the worst happen it could save you neck. BTW.... SFI38.1 is not without its flaws, but is what we have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce L. Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 "lack of yoke" ? AFAIK (I've read the spec), the only non-compliant thing about the Isaac is that it doesn't meet the single-point-of-release requirement. thanks, bruce If they'd only word it using performance #'s instead of the actual SFI spec. "Meets or exceeds SFI Spec 38.1 test numbers" would weed out Joe Bob's duct tape & bailing wire versions. The approved list would only grow by 1 or 2 versions so it's not like tech wouldn't be able to keep track. Isaac doesn't meet spec because of the lack of yoke and an extra release point, but it's performance numbers speak for themselves. Require a H&N device all you want, but let me make my own choice on which one I want to use. I took the inititave and bought an Isaac 4 years ago. There were no rules for it so I bought what I thought was the best product Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_venturini Posted December 6, 2007 Share Posted December 6, 2007 well i think im just going to buy the isaac and hope i dont get screwed when an official ruling is made Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottbm3 Posted December 6, 2007 Share Posted December 6, 2007 well i think im just going to buy the isaac and hope i dont get screwed when an official ruling is made I wouldn't do that if I were you. It hasn't been approved for any of the other sanctioning bodies and I wouldn't think the trend will change. You'll end up spending twice for the H&N device. Skip on new set of tires during the season and spend the money on a HANS. You will be using it for years and if you average the cost it's pretty cheap. There's a reason all the major sanctioning bodies that require a device, have the HANS as the device of choice. I bought mine when I first started doing DE's in 2004 and have worn it ever since, racing or not. My thinking was that you cannot skimp on safety. They are about to release a sport model HANS that will be a few hundred dollars less than what they offer now. Just my opinion, others may vary. -Scott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Izzy's Cages Posted December 6, 2007 Share Posted December 6, 2007 There's a reason all the major sanctioning bodies that require a device, have the HANS as the device of choice. LOL... yes there is. That's a whole different thread that's been hashed out on every racing site I've been on. Follow the money... On the yoke... could have sworn there was some verbage that referenced a yoke design. I could be wrong. Where's Gregg Baker? Surely he's on here somewhere Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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