Cobra4B Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 My father and I picked up an ex Panoz driving school car. It's a Panoz GTRA custom painted as a Penske promotional car (has stupid koni coil-overs though haha vs. the GTS' penskes). I've been running HPDEs for 5 years in my Z06 and have recently retired it to be a waxer. In fact, I cut the roof off and am repainting it, but that's off topic. We got the GTRA as a fun track rat for HPDE and possibly TTs. However, a few of my Corvette buddies are now running ST2 and having a blast. Curious how this Panoz would class out? I hear replica Cobras run in ST2 and this has a similar layout/construction. This model has a 250 crank hp 5.0 and weighs around 2500lbs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 they're is a conversion factor for it to classify it into ST1 or ST2 (which are the same as TTU and TTS respectively) it'll all depend on actual WHP, competition weight, which tires and sizes you're going to run as to if it'll map into ST1 or ST2, but we can walk you through that process Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobra4B Posted January 7, 2008 Author Share Posted January 7, 2008 I was told by a vette racer that it wouldn't qualify for ST2 being that it was a tube frame chassis? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
National Staff Greg G. Posted January 7, 2008 National Staff Share Posted January 7, 2008 The Panoz GTRA may be used on ST2 using the same -0.2 modification factor that was given to the Panoz GTS. However, I am in the process of classing the '97-'99 Panoz GTRA (5.0L) into a lower level PT/TT class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 FFRs are tube frame but get a "correction factor pass" just like the Panoz, Lotus7 clones, etc might be worth clarifying how one would go about getting that for a certain car Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobra4B Posted January 8, 2008 Author Share Posted January 8, 2008 The Panoz GTRA may be used on ST2 using the same -0.2 modification factor that was given to the Panoz GTS. However, I am in the process of classing the '97-'99 Panoz GTRA (5.0L) into a lower level PT/TT class. Cool... keep me updated. The car would need more power to run in ST2 for sure, so a lower level might be a good start for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
National Staff Greg G. Posted January 8, 2008 National Staff Share Posted January 8, 2008 http://www.nasaforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=129943#129943 Even though Panoz claimed that the cars weighed around 2550 lbs. The car owners that requested the classing have had their cars weighed, and they come up at about 2700-2750 lbs w/o driver or fuel. So, we have made the spec weight for the car 2925 lbs w/driver. Let me know by e-mail if you find that your car weighs a lot less than that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AIMidwest27 Posted January 14, 2008 Share Posted January 14, 2008 Greg, Along with a co-owner I also have a Panoz GTRA that we plan to use for NASA Enduro racing in the Midwest/IN/OH regions. On the scales, no driver, no gas, it weights 2790. The guy selling these cars stating that they weigh 2500 is smoking DOPE.... and lot's of it. There are going to be a lot of these cars showing up to run NASA so I hope you can do something to help us out with classification (maybe an ST3 class that would lower the base WT/HP ratio and keep all the other rules ?). By the way, if a Panoz is automatically defaulted to any ST class, that means we are forced to ES for enduro racing. This puts us in the same group as AIX, SU, GTS1, T1, etc - which are WAY out of out league. The car is best suited to run in the EO (?) class along with the American Iron (AI) car and FFR cars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 '97-'99 Panoz GTRA 5.0l spec race car: PTB/TTB that should help you guys out in Enduro Classing, correct? (should slot in between AI and CMC iirc) (edit) PTB maps over to E0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobra4B Posted January 25, 2008 Author Share Posted January 25, 2008 I haven't yet weighed my car... the spec for the GTS w/ the 5.8 motor, TKO trans, and diff cooler is 2650. The GTRA is supposed to be lighter w/ the 5.0, 3550, and no diff cooler. Who knows... we'll see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squerly Posted February 18, 2008 Share Posted February 18, 2008 I also recently purchased a Panoz GTS and was in the process of getting the feel of the car when a loose bolt in the carburetor decided to make a new home in cylinder #5. I am having the engine rebuilt and because of some modifications that I have had added, the engine can't be sealed. So I'm wondering... what class (if any) will my car be eligible to run in? I estimate a little better than 500hp now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted February 18, 2008 Share Posted February 18, 2008 dyno it, weigh it. then calculate your adjusted power:weight per the Super Touring rules under 8.7 is ST2, under 5.5 is ST1. Over that, you're in SU Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squerly Posted February 18, 2008 Share Posted February 18, 2008 dyno it, weigh it. then calculate your adjusted power:weight per the Super Touring rules under 8.7 is ST2, under 5.5 is ST1. Over that, you're in SU Thanks kbrew. I assume that there are other limiting factors that I'm leaving out of this equation, but for simple math purposes a car weighing 3000 lbs / 500 HP = 6 would run in ST2 ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devin G. Posted February 18, 2008 Share Posted February 18, 2008 Based on those numbers alone, the car would fall into ST-1. The rules read; Super Touring 1 (ST1) = “adjusted” wt/hp ratio equal to, or greater than, 5.50:1 Super Touring 2 (ST2) = “adjusted” wt/hp ratio equal to, or greater than, 8.70:1 Depending on how the car is prepared (slicks, dogbox,etc...) you could be very close to SU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted February 18, 2008 Share Posted February 18, 2008 there are some other factors like tire width, weight gets a second correction, etc Here is an assumption for your car at 3000lbs with driver/gear/etc , 500whp, 275mm DOT tires, 3000lbs/500whp = 6 lbs/hp unadjusted +0.40 adjustment for 275-250mm tires -0.25 adjustment for 3000-2951lbs -0.20 adjustment for Panoz Non-production/tube frame vehicle type 6.00 + 0.40 - 0.25 - 0.20 = 5.95 adjusted, under the limit for ST1 playing with weight is where it gets tricky as it changes your unadjusted lb/hp and the weight adjustment. also ran a quick what-if you ran wider than 275mm DOT approved tires, your adjusted would change to 5.55 which is bleeding close to the edge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squerly Posted February 18, 2008 Share Posted February 18, 2008 there are some other factors like tire width, weight gets a second correction, etc Here is an assumption for your car at 3000lbs with driver/gear/etc , 500whp, 275mm DOT tires, 3000lbs/500whp = 6 lbs/hp unadjusted +0.40 adjustment for 275-250mm tires -0.25 adjustment for 3000-2951lbs -0.20 adjustment for Panoz Non-production/tube frame vehicle type 6.00 + 0.40 - 0.25 - 0.20 = 5.95 adjusted, under the limit for ST1 playing with weight is where it gets tricky as it changes your unadjusted lb/hp and the weight adjustment. also ran a quick what-if you ran wider than 275mm DOT approved tires, your adjusted would change to 5.55 which is bleeding close to the edge Thanks kbrew. The engine is being shipped tomorrow, should have it back in the car middle of next week. Then I'll have to find a dyno but when I quoted 500hp, I didn't mean to the wheels. I should have a little wiggle room if we knock off the 10-15% for WHP calculations. Thanks again... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted February 18, 2008 Share Posted February 18, 2008 there ya go weight would probably what I'd look at next to "max out" the car within the class, but you've gotta watch the double-whammy effect Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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