Admiral Posted July 17, 2004 Share Posted July 17, 2004 I'd like to hear other driver's opinions on this topic but let's not bash NASA, por favor! Here in the TX Region we don't have a portable dyno at the track. Bunch of great racing thus far this season and no protests filed about anyone's HP or TQ to my knowledge. After last race weekend my hood/computer was sealed and the Series director requested I schedule a dyno pull at a place/time he could attend (actually in a couple of hours from when I write this). This was done to all the race winners from that weekend from what I understand in both NASATX AI and CMC. I scheduled the dyno session with a local shop, but when I asked who pays for it the rules weren't clear. Initally my stance was that if I was found to be compliant in the HP/TQ rule then NASA should pay for the dyno pull. NASA has informed me that I am responsible for the cost and upon reflection I'm ok with that as long as it doesn't keep happening during a season (ie getting sealed multiple times in a season for a random NASA compliance check). This is something that NASA will clarify in next year's rules I've been told but I wanted to put it out here for discussion amongst the competitors. If it helps ensure the integrity of the AI rules (of which the HP/TQ limits are the heart and soul IMHO) then I'd have no problem being told that there is a possiblity of being randomly checked ONCE during a season. That way I know going into the race season that I may have to pony up and schedule/pay for 1 random dyno session at NASA's request. It also relieves the pressure of my competitors having to decide if they want to protest in order to find out if my motor is compliant. (We have a great bunch of racers who all seem to get along very well, they most likely wouldn't file such a protest unless something very blatant happened - like I all of a sudden got gobs of power and was winning, lol) I'd like to see the limit set at only ONE of these random NASA checks per race season to help limit the a.) cost to me and b.) the hassle of having the hood sealed (can't work on the car much that way) and c.) the hassle of scheduling a dyno session. Granted, if that random check occurred early in the season then one might reason that a racer would then be tempted to feel that they could do timing adjustments/chips/etc without being tested again, but that would be where a protest could cause a subsequent dyno pull. What do you think, am I missing something here or making it too simple? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted July 17, 2004 Share Posted July 17, 2004 I scheduled and paid for my dyno pull myself at the start of the season. I just consider it part of the cost of racing. I think my situation may be a little simpler than many others though - I have made zero mods to the drivetrain and have no plans to change it all season. For this reason, my dyno pull is valid all year unless I get protested. Given how poor my hp/weight ratio is, I don't think I'll be seeing any protests. 3553 lbs at a whopping 287rwhp/320rwtq. In the case of a protest, I think that the "loser" of the protest should pay the dyno fee, not NASA. This should keep protests to serious protests (If someone is just pissed off, they still know that they have to "pony up" $50-$100 if they are wrong.) This also keeps the competitors not involved in the situation from having to shoulder the cost. An alternative to this scenario would be to add a surcharge to the AI entrance fees to cover the cost of dyno runs for a defined number of competitors for each event (say 3). If it were distributed across all competitors, it shouldn't cost so much. The pattern could be the top 2 drivers and a 3rd one as selected by the series director. This 3rd one would be defaulted to the 3rd finishing position unless there were protests. Then, it would be at his discretion. Just a possible way to make it work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Posted July 17, 2004 Author Share Posted July 17, 2004 Keith, They dyno pull at the beginning of the season to verify compliance is not the one I'm discussing. I think the rules are pretty clear on how/when/and who pays for that one. I'm specifically asking for comments about a random NASA dyno pull request during a season. Like you I don't have plans to mod my motor, change timing, etc unless the car starts acting up, then I'd need to recert the HP/TQ ratio by getting another dyno run at my expense. WRT to the protest, I believe the rules state exactly what you said, if car is found not compliant then driver pays, if it is found to be compliant then protester pays. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted July 17, 2004 Share Posted July 17, 2004 Doh! In that instance, a random dyno test should be paid for by NASA. However, in the 3-car scenario described above a random pull could be covered in that manner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racercosmo Posted July 17, 2004 Share Posted July 17, 2004 Out here, if NASA wants to dyno a car, they pay for the dyno and transportation costs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Posted July 17, 2004 Author Share Posted July 17, 2004 Interesting. We are pretty much getting started here in Texas, but it sounds like there is a discrepancy on how this gets handled. My race director told me that JWL said there is no provision in the rules for NASA paying for the random dyno check and that it is the driver's responsibility. Perhaps I misunderstood or am confusing something. Hearing that the West Coast does it differently concerns me somewhat. We just got back from the dyno session, my car was within the rules on HP/TQ to weight ratios. Each of us paid for our individual dyno pulls. While it isn't alot of money, it is a pain in the behind IMHO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racercosmo Posted July 17, 2004 Share Posted July 17, 2004 This may be a different situation. I don't know if anybody has ever been called for a random dyno, but any time that NASA has requested a car to be dynoed after a race, NASA picked up the tab. At Fontana, the dyno was 30 minutes away at Brother's Performance, NASA provided the transportation. That is the way it should be. Unless another competitor has filed a protest, you shouldn't have to pay whether you're compliant or not. If you are being checked because of a protest, whoever is wrong should pay for the dyno. As in if you are legal, the driver that protested pays, if you are illegal, you pay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
924RACR Posted July 18, 2004 Share Posted July 18, 2004 You may wish to review, for comparison, our dyno rules for GTS Challenge; specifically, how protests are handled: http://www.gtschallenge.com/2004rules.htm I'd be interested in hearing feedback directly, since I'm the one who wrote them. I've tried to address some of these issues, but I know there are still possible areas of concern there... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Posted July 18, 2004 Author Share Posted July 18, 2004 racercosmo, I'm sure with regions all over it will take some time to get things coordinated amongst the various entities. In your region, when NASA requests a dyno run is that considered a "random compliance check" or is there another situation (other than protest by a competitor) where NASA can mandate your hood be sealed and a dyno check be performed? Seems we are getting off on a tangent with the protest situation, I'm not asking about those procedures as they seem pretty well laid out to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racercosmo Posted July 18, 2004 Share Posted July 18, 2004 Sorry if I went off for a minute. The main thing I am getting at is that in the last 4 years, no competitor has had to pay for hi/her own dyno except for the mandated sheet that you get at the beginning of the year. If Ryan or John said they want a car on the dyno, they have paid for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jim P. Posted July 18, 2004 Members Share Posted July 18, 2004 I would tend to agree, if a racer(s) protest a fellow competitor and the results are the competitor is legal - then the protestor(s) should pay for the dyno. If the competitor turns out to be illegal then the competitor should pay for the dyno. If NASA officials want to randomly check any vehicle(s) - then they should pay for the dyno. This should keep everyone fairly honest... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Posted July 19, 2004 Author Share Posted July 19, 2004 racercosmo, no problem on the diversion, I appreciate the info! Jim, has your region done any random impounds and requested a dyno for any reason during a season? If so, I presume the region paid for the dyno pull? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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