350_dollar_hatch Posted July 25, 2004 Share Posted July 25, 2004 Can I make a CRVTEC for the Honda Challenge? The Rules say the block must have only Genuine Honda parts. The bottom end would have only stock b20 parts. The top end however for any block according to my understanding of the rules, is mostly free. The only restrictions I read were on the manifold which has to be stock (type r would be legal?) and Throttle Body. Since the head is oem and the regulations are mostly free, I should be allowed to add a b16 VTEC head correct? I would also not be breaking the Displacement rule, as I would be .4 liters under. Maybe someone could tell me that I'm right or wrong in all my assumptions. And if I'm wrong, I humbly request someone telling me why, as I am new to HC, Building Racecars, and racing in organized events other than a couple of Auto-xes and Drag. It will probably take me about a year to two years to build my car as I'm also building my daily driver 240sx, but I can get everything to get a standard b20 in my hatch for 1100 and I don't wanna pass it up if I don't have to. Also a b20 by itself should be ok for auto-x. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0x1 Posted July 25, 2004 Share Posted July 25, 2004 As far as I understand the rules, I think the setup you've laid out is perfectly legal, but there are a couple things that you should consider. Stock pistons is a very limiting factor. The highest compression pistons offered in the B20 bottom end were 9.6:1. You can help this a little by going with a GSR head which I've been told brings the compression ratio to closer to 10:1 and higher compression valves might get you another .3 or so, but when you do this, you have to have the pistons cut for valve clearance. Plus, if I remember correctly, the rod/stroke ratio of a B20 is not very good for high revving, which is where the VTEC head is gonna give you all of your power. Anyway, just things to think about. If you are totally new to road racing, you may want to consider starting out in a lower class (not H1). A lot of people seem to like to start in H4. Your hatch would probably qualify for H4 with the stock D-series motor. -Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
350_dollar_hatch Posted July 25, 2004 Author Share Posted July 25, 2004 Thank you very much for you reply. I am getting my hatch for 350 dollars, but within there lies a problem. It has no motor. Also, it was a VX model, and I don't think an 85hp d15 would do very well even in h4. Can I swap a d16z6 into that? I believe that would bump me into h3 correct? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianZ Posted July 25, 2004 Share Posted July 25, 2004 Thank you very much for you reply. I am getting my hatch for 350 dollars, but within there lies a problem. It has no motor. Also, it was a VX model, and I don't think an 85hp d15 would do very well even in h4. Can I swap a d16z6 into that? I believe that would bump me into h3 correct? what year is your hatch? From that i can tell, as long as it is not a Civic SI that is 99-00 you should be in H4, assuming that your car could have come with the d16z6 motor in it.. H3 Prelude (92-96, S, Si, and Si-4WS) Integra GS-R (all) Civic Si 99-00 and 02-present Del Sol VTEC (1.6L B-series engine) RSX (Not Otherwise Classified) H4 88-91 Civic, CRX Si (1.6L) 92-present Civic (all 1.6L Not Otherwise Classified) Accord (4 cylinder models, 1990 to present) Del Sol (S, Si) Integra (All 1.8L non VTEC) Prelude (all pre ’92) Deleted: Accord (4 cylinder models, 1990 to present) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
350_dollar_hatch Posted July 25, 2004 Author Share Posted July 25, 2004 I'm almost positive it's a '92. I think after talking it over and reading examples I would stay in H4. I am thinking I'll stay in H4 for now. I have a friend with a D-series that has a bad rod bearing. He is selling it for 100$. I think that would be a good platform since it is getting a mild rebuild anyway. Assuming I am staying D-series, let me ask some questions while you two are being kind enough to help me out (I appreciate it alot). Other than Wrist pins, the rules says that you can use non-OEM fastners, correct? This means I can use ARP head studs and rod bolts etc., correct? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianZ Posted July 25, 2004 Share Posted July 25, 2004 9.1 Engine p) Fasteners may be replaced with items performing the exact function. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0x1 Posted July 26, 2004 Share Posted July 26, 2004 Did your friend's motor spin the rod bering? If so, it could have done a lot of damage to the pistons, valves, etc. You should probably have it checked out before you buy it. As far as the ARP head studs, I'm not sure if they're really worth the extra $50 over replacement honda studs since we're running pretty close to stock hp, but I've been told that the rod bolts are definitely worth upgrading to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grumpy Posted July 27, 2004 Share Posted July 27, 2004 9.1 Enginep) Fasteners may be replaced with items performing the exact function. A head bolt is not a head stud. Not exact function. Bolt for a bolt is OK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0x1 Posted July 27, 2004 Share Posted July 27, 2004 Jim - I didn't realize that there was a difference between the two. I thought that people used the terms interchangably. What is a stud (vs. a bolt) and can studs even be used in engines that have head bolts originally? Thanks, Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grumpy Posted July 27, 2004 Share Posted July 27, 2004 Jim - I didn't realize that there was a difference between the two. I thought that people used the terms interchangably. What is a stud (vs. a bolt) and can studs even be used in engines that have head bolts originally? Thanks, Scott A stud has threads on both ends. You couild screw the studs into the block, place over them the gasket and the head and then use a nut on the stud to complete the function. Studs cause less wear and tear on the parts than do bolts for one benefit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badboypolar Posted July 28, 2004 Share Posted July 28, 2004 Oh come on grumpy. They do the same thing. They both hold the head onto the block. Just in an ever so "slightly" different manner. They both thread into the block and both have a washer and head (be it a nut or otherwise) that helps sinch it down. Either way I would say yes you can use the ARP fasteners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
civicrr Posted July 29, 2004 Share Posted July 29, 2004 9.1 Enginep) Fasteners may be replaced with items performing the exact function. A head bolt is not a head stud. Not exact function. Bolt for a bolt is OK. .....discussion has been started on this....more later Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ryan F. Posted July 30, 2004 Members Share Posted July 30, 2004 Folks, The tech folks have exchanged thoughts and the official result is that any fastener that has the sole purpose of attaching will be allowed. A bolt or stud will be considered the same. Thanks, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
straywalker Posted September 25, 2004 Share Posted September 25, 2004 Any dyno numbers of what your B20 Vtec setups are putting out. I have a stock B20b block with a B16A2 head and added on adjustable cam gears but other wise the head internals are all stock. I put down 155whp and 127tq using a JDM PR3 ecu. I just installed Hondata S200 and now im looking to tune it and see what numbers in can get with the hondata. OLD Setup- Head: B16A2 with adjustable cam gears. Block: All stock B20b ECU: JDM PR3 Tranny: 94 LS Tranny New Setup- Head: B16A2 with adjustable cam gears. Block: All stock B20b ECU: Hondata S200 Tranny: 95 GSR Tranny Pending for new dyno numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
007 Posted September 25, 2004 Share Posted September 25, 2004 There is only one real problem in using the stock head bolts, they stretch over time. I have seen problems in re-using the honda bolts. With ARPs you can use them over and over again. Head studs (in a racing application) end up costing you less in the long run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chad Posted September 30, 2004 Share Posted September 30, 2004 9.1 Enginep) Fasteners may be replaced with items performing the exact function. A head bolt is not a head stud. Not exact function. Bolt for a bolt is OK. BULL CRAP.....i will replace ALL HONDA HEAD BOLTS WITH HEADSTUD...... it performs the same freaking functing..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
straywalker Posted September 30, 2004 Share Posted September 30, 2004 I replace my headstuds with ARP everytime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
civicrr Posted September 30, 2004 Share Posted September 30, 2004 Chad, what is the deal? Ryan posted that the head stud would be legal back in July. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chad Posted September 30, 2004 Share Posted September 30, 2004 Chad, what is the deal? Ryan posted that the head stud would be legal back in July. did not look at the date of the post....sorry.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
civicrr Posted October 1, 2004 Share Posted October 1, 2004 all good bro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
straywalker Posted October 1, 2004 Share Posted October 1, 2004 Anyone else using b20 blocks? with or w/o vtec heads? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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