nape Posted October 2, 2008 Share Posted October 2, 2008 I think Jimmy is saying that it sucks that he (supposedly) cannot win points using Toyo tires just because they are a year old. Why should the tire sponsor get to decide how points are alloted? Toyo doesn't pay that much money. edit = typo Because if you check all the Toyo contingency forms, they award Toyo bucks to the Regional Championship podium. If they're going to pay money to the points Champion, you can bet they're going to require him to be on their tire. I just hope I don't flat spot these 1 heat cycle old tires so that I can sell them to a DE guy at a nickel on the dollar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbodleimages Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 The R888 is faster than the RA1's. With that in mind I have no problem with anyone wanting to run the phased out tire. Just handle this on a regional basis. I doubt anyone running R888s is going to complain about a competitor using the RA1. An official rule change just brings Toyo into the mix and thats just not necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff F Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 I proposed this in our region, might be a good idea for others-- allow the RA1 as a rain tire for 2009. The rules could be worded such that to run a RA1, the session must be declared a "rain session" by the race director, and the tires used must have a minimum tread depth of 6/32". I too have a bunch of usable dry tires leftover, but I can accept that they have to be burned up on practice days, etc. It would be nice to not have to shell out the $ for new rain tires. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingDog Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 I think Jimmy is saying that it sucks that he (supposedly) cannot win points using Toyo tires just because they are a year old. Why should the tire sponsor get to decide how points are alloted? Toyo doesn't pay that much money.Because if you check all the Toyo contingency forms, they award Toyo bucks to the Regional Championship podium. If they're going to pay money to the points Champion, you can bet they're going to require him to be on their tire.Uhh... RA1s ARE Toyos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbodleimages Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 RA1's are not for sale any longer by Toyo. If they are, they are left overs. Toyo as a company provides tire money and sponsor money to NASA to promote their tires. That means their current product line which does not include the RA1 any longer. They certainly don't want to be seeing Ra1's beating R888's on the race track. That doesn't send the kind of signal to the market place that they want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sterling Doc Posted October 4, 2008 Share Posted October 4, 2008 The R888 is faster than the RA1's... You might be surprised. This has not been the case with our transition last year from the RA-1's to the R-888's, nor have the World Challenge cars been faster on the R-888's. This transition has been pretty painful so far, but we're try to work with setup to get close to our old times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mystic_Cobra Posted October 4, 2008 Share Posted October 4, 2008 The R888 is faster than the RA1's... You might be surprised. This has not been the case with our transition last year from the RA-1's to the R-888's, nor have the World Challenge cars been faster on the R-888's. This transition has been pretty painful so far, but we're try to work with setup to get close to our old times. Care to share any of what you learned that might help those of us who have never touched an R888? Are starting pressures about the same? Typically Higher or lower? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbodleimages Posted October 4, 2008 Share Posted October 4, 2008 I am a fairly new driver and therefore its hard to give credit to any one source when I pick up time. I ran 1:44's in 90+ degrees at Road Atlanta this past August on R888's after having run 1:43's in 60 degrees last November on BFG R1's. We have a better brake package on the car and I had some laps at RA in May. But never the less you can make a case that with conditions taken into account we were faster on the R888's than on the BFG's which are excellent tires. I was told that the R888's had a softer sidewall and that you could make that up with spring rate or any spring rate substitute like air pressure and shock setting. I was told that there was more forward bite with the 8's. All of my laps have been done on full treads. We never got the shaved tires on the car this season. My take as someone that is not an expert is that with a stiffer shock setting and more attention to tire pressures I felt like the car was faster on the 8's than the RA1's which I ran on the same weekend a couple of times. At Road Atlanta we were not getting enough air pressure in the right front and big air pressure gains in the left front. As a result we ran uneven air pressures on the front tires for the first time. Over a race long run the car would settle down very nicely. Take everything I say with a grain of salt as I say. Those are my experiences, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Matt Posted October 4, 2008 Share Posted October 4, 2008 Don't believe everything you read on the Internet, folks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbodleimages Posted October 4, 2008 Share Posted October 4, 2008 I appreciate the laughter. It hit the spot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sterling Doc Posted October 4, 2008 Share Posted October 4, 2008 (edited) The R888 is faster than the RA1's... You might be surprised. This has not been the case with our transition last year from the RA-1's to the R-888's, nor have the World Challenge cars been faster on the R-888's. This transition has been pretty painful so far, but we're try to work with setup to get close to our old times. Care to share any of what you learned that might help those of us who have never touched an R888? Are starting pressures about the same? Typically Higher or lower? I spent a lot of time trying to figure this out, because there's a lot of varied opinions out there, and making sense of them all has been difficult. I talked with several world challenge teams, and also Toyo engineers through the last season. The R-888 has a *stiffer* sidewall, but softer tread construction, than the RA-1. This generally means lower pressures, less camber and a less stiff setup, and the recommendation for the WC teams/crew (at least the ones who would talk ), as well as Toyo's official recommendations bear that out. However, we've (the 944 Spec community) had issues with rapidly cording the edges of our tires with the pressures we used to run the RA-1's at, much less lower pressures, and we run 2.5-3.5 negative camber as well. The latest theory is that we run a high profile tire on a narrow rim (225/50/15 on 7"rims), and are seeing some unusual tire deformation d/t that and the new construction, so this could be limited to our setup, and be less of an issue, or none at all on lower profile tires on wider rims, like you guys run. The moral is, the R-888 is definitely not a bolt on replacement for the RA-1. Car set up, tire temps, and driving style (lower slip angles), etc. all need to be reassesed for this tire. So far, the 944 Spec community have been consistantly slower on R-888's at multuiple venues, but maybe we haven't found the set-up secret yet, or maybe it's d/t to idiosyncracies of our size tire. I'll be interested to see how it goes for you guys! Here's a link to some of our discussions on the new tires: http://944spec.org/944SPEC/component/option,com_fireboard/Itemid,30/func,view/id,2208/catid,9/ Edited October 5, 2008 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ed M. Posted October 5, 2008 Members Share Posted October 5, 2008 So far, the 944 Spec community have been consistantly slower on RA-1's You mean "on R888's", right? (based on the way I'm reading your previous posts...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sterling Doc Posted October 5, 2008 Share Posted October 5, 2008 So far, the 944 Spec community have been consistantly slower on RA-1's You mean "on R888's", right? (based on the way I'm reading your previous posts...) Yep, fixed it - thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
860TTC Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 A fair compromise would be to allow RA1's for 2 weekends with no Toyo bucks. As someone who is preparing to run AI next year I feel blindsided by the ruling to not allow RA1's next year. I've run the new Nitto's this year and have stopped running them mid season. If I new this I would have bough a set of R888 and not RA1’s! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbodleimages Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 The change to the R888 was established before the start of the '08 season. While other classes started with the 8's last season the 275/40-17 888 was not available widely enough and pushed off til '09. So, its been on the books for a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Matt Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 I don't think anyone has an excuse for having been "blindsided" by this change, since as noted it's been on the books for a long time and many of us managed our tire usage throughout 2008 knowing that the RA-1s would be obsolete in 2009. I scrimped by on garbage tires for three events and then bought one new set of dry tires specifically for the Nationals. Some people (including me) did get caught out at Mid Ohio with all the rain, since I was gambling on it being dry and too cheap to buy another new set of rains for one event. But it worked out OK in the end. I'm reminded of the sign I see hanging in a lot auto parts shops: "Lack of planning on your part does not constitute a crisis on my part." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Micks 41 Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 ......: "Lack of planning on your part does not constitute a crisis on my part." Unfortunately I haven't been able to convince my customers that this policy exists!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizlbits Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 King Matt wrote:......: "Lack of planning on your part does not constitute a crisis on my part." Unfortunately I haven't been able to convince my customers that this policy exists!! Glad to hear I am not alone on this with my customers Mickey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lelady Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 : "Lack of planning on your part does not constitute a crisis on my part." As I sit at my desk here at Wild Pony Motorsports - that sign hangs right behind me for all customers to see Vicky Griffin AI West Director Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ST#97 Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 Well, newsflash and amazing surprise. Racer in our region has RA1's and R888's mounted on same rims...only 5/32 wider for the R888...that tells me they like getting pinched and will have a squirly sidewall. Maybe that is why the WC guys are slower and spring rates have to go up?! I still want to see this for my own eyes so I might ask him to bring them to Eagle's Canyon this weekend. Who would of thought a tire that was 3/4" wider would only be 5/32" wider when mounted?! Sidewall must be funky?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nape Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 5/32nds... Fine, 79-04 Mustangs can be 74 1/8" wide this year. They're already beating me, I might as well let them have another 1/8" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizlbits Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 Well I am glad to see that disaster has been averted. I have seen the same thing playing with 305's, vs 335's unmounted vs mounted on the same rim (11"). Mounting them can make a huge difference in the stack height. I guess the lesson learned is that we need to have all the facts before we all go selling our cars or something crazy due to speculation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
860TTC Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 The change to the R888 was established before the start of the '08 season. While other classes started with the 8's last season the 275/40-17 888 was not available widely enough and pushed off til '09. So, its been on the books for a bit. What books? There is nothing in the rules, the AI web site or anything obvious on the board until we talked about the 2009 rules. The thread that talks about this ruling is hidden several pages back. It should have been a posted as a sticky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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