Grizlbits Posted September 16, 2004 Share Posted September 16, 2004 (edited) I can honestly say that 1 year ago I hammered anyone who brought this up. However, I now an leaning towards a h.p. & torque rule in AIX. I want to race competatively with other similar powered cars. I do not get that currently because I have more H.P. than a lot of other cars. As the series progresses, someone will show up with a 2700 pound car with 1000 h.p. and kick everyones butt. It is just a matter of time. This class will have most it's member leave and drop to a different class at that time. I know what it takes to run a fast car with a lot of h.p.. Money, and lots of it! I am trying to figure out ways around it (tires, brakes, strong transmissions, strong motor blocks etc) but it is a lot of up front money to make a competative, DEPENDABLE, AIX car. This will continue to skyrocket in the coming years driving out most of the members in the class. It needs to be addressed soon IMO. How about 5 pounds / h.p. & torque ????? That would cap most cars around 600 RWHP, which is what most competative cars are shooting for. Edit - spelling Edited September 16, 2004 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Horse Posted September 16, 2004 Share Posted September 16, 2004 Personally I think AIX should NOT have any HP/Torque limits - economically speaking, who would build a 1000 HP car to compete in a series where all you win is bragging rights? Besides, I like seeing the monster motors compete! And the real challenge is can you build a monster motor to last the whole season? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Bird Posted September 16, 2004 Share Posted September 16, 2004 Yikes! There should definitely not be a raw hp/torque maximum or hp/torque to weight ratio maximum for AIX. Leave that for AI ONLY. Paul Bird 96 Cobra AIX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizlbits Posted September 16, 2004 Author Share Posted September 16, 2004 I like seeing the monster motors compete! I guess I was leaning more towards close competition. I think that close competition is what will eventually brings sponsors & fans to our races. I don't think that motors winning races will draw the crowds / sponsors. After competing in AIX for 14 races I can honestly say that I haven't had a close race yet (shut up about Putman Park in the rain). It is kind of boring. Ask yourselves this, What do fans watch during a race, a car all by itself in the lead, or 2 - 3 cars battling for position lap after lap. If AIX continues at it's current rate it will become exhibition racing with Motor vs. Motor. Unless the motors are kept even remotely even, I feel the "racing" will deteriorate in AIX. Maybe I have different goals than the standard AIX racer. Lets see what you guys think after you spank the field with no real competition for a year. I think your views may change, then again maybe not. I guess I have chosen the wrong class. I am in NO WAY downgrading my competition in AIX, their are some good racers in AIX. I am just pointing out that I have either way more h.p. than some people, or way more dependability than others. The situation has not produced any close races to date. So I am really up in the air on what to run. I want to battle lap after lap, maybe AI is the way to go.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racercosmo Posted September 16, 2004 Share Posted September 16, 2004 I agree to a point. Out here the monster motors have stayed away, and when they have shown up, they haven't done much for long. I would guess that most are still in the mid 400-500 hp range. A 306 that was consistently driven well won the 2002-2003 AIX championships. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDR_John Posted September 16, 2004 Share Posted September 16, 2004 I don't think there should be any limitations on HP/TQ in AIX. I understand Chris' frustration (not from personal experience mind you) but I really like the open rules of AIX. The extreme class is supposed to be the place to run your WILD HIGH HP machine, parts breakage included. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trackboss Posted September 16, 2004 Share Posted September 16, 2004 If it is gonna involve dyno testing then I would not vote for this idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidney Posted September 17, 2004 Share Posted September 17, 2004 Isn't 600hp really enough! Chris has spanked everyone that lined up on the track with him...he probably understands this subject better than anyone. Sidney Franklin AGS/AI #64 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwilson7 Posted September 17, 2004 Share Posted September 17, 2004 Well Chris - I guess you are lucky because it would be easy for you to run AI with your car. Change your motor and wheels/tires and come race! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbrown8439 Posted September 17, 2004 Share Posted September 17, 2004 I don't think HP is the only reason no one can keep up with Chris. There are several AI cars that finish in front of a good portion of the AIX field. Limiting HP may help but I don't think it will put Chris in second place. Greg Brown OH/IN AI #7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onralz Posted September 19, 2004 Share Posted September 19, 2004 I don't think HP is the only reason no one can keep up with Chris. There are several AI cars that finish in front of a good portion of the AIX field. Limiting HP may help but I don't think it will put Chris in second place. Greg Brown OH/IN AI #7 If he would let his wife drive, you'd see how fast that car could be and Chris would be in second. JK Chris, tell Sue hi for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timn Posted September 21, 2004 Share Posted September 21, 2004 Beautiful car Chris! I probably won't be running in AI or AIX any more due to fundage but last year Bruce, Ross, Bill Daffron, John Lindsey and I were pretty much the front runners in AIX/West at every race. We all had very different cars and only one of them was a big HP car. John and I only had about 440 rwhp in a mildly built 331 and a car that weighed in at a stout 3029 lbs. The thing of it was the racing was insanely close. I dont know how much HP Bruce's car with a 306 put out but I know his car is much, much lighter. Bill Daffron and Ross Murray had the most power (i think). At the end of the race at Reno/Fernly there was about 15 ft between the first place front bumper and the 3rd place front bumper. Before I go trying to get a ton of horsepower I would try to make the car the lightest I possibly could. As far as a HP/TQ - WT rule, I could go either way. But it doesn't matter because I probably wont be in this series any more. Pending a big lottery coming my way. TimN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWL Posted September 21, 2004 Share Posted September 21, 2004 Actually we only had about 440 crank HP which works out to even less at the wheels. This is an interesting rule change that we've discussed many times before and the thought always comes back to X=Xtreme=Big Thumpers. Bruce proved you don't need a ton of HP to win and sometimes I think a bunch of power can be a hindrance because you can't put power down and it also tends to blow up more often. We'll discuss again, though, and see where we come out. -JWL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardC Posted September 21, 2004 Share Posted September 21, 2004 Leave AIX alone, there should not be any limits. I think AIX in every region is a much smaller group than AI, if you are not getting enough competition in AIX then either wait for the numbers to increase or run AI. Richard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racercosmo Posted September 21, 2004 Share Posted September 21, 2004 The September (I think) race at Thunderhill was a pretty good example of power. Three cars were there. Bruce in the #40, Tim/ JWL in the #22, and Terry Buch/Vageli in the TCP car. Terry claimed they had about 450 HP, we had never dyno the 306 on an engine dyno, but it made 390 RWHP at the beginning of the 2002 season, and John had claimed his car was a bit over 400 at the crank. None of the three cars could pull away going down the long straight at T Hill. Terry and I looked at eachother and agreed that nobody was apparently lying. Tim, I don't know how much Lightning weighs but the #40 is race ready at about 3150-3200 depending on the driver. In my career, it's never had a driver under 200 lbs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 21, 2004 Share Posted September 21, 2004 Tim, I don't know how much Lightning weighs but the #40 is race ready at about 3150-3200 depending on the driver. In my career, it's never had a driver under 200 lbs. Hey, i thought everybody from Kalifornia was thin and beautiful...200lbers belong in the midwest! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbrown8439 Posted September 21, 2004 Share Posted September 21, 2004 The hp limit in AI is a pain to enforce and is the largest source of stress for at least a few of us in AI. Don't do it to AIX! Greg Brown OH/IN AI#7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAI Racing Posted September 21, 2004 Share Posted September 21, 2004 We're not fat... We are all really tall in California and have very heavy bones... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timn Posted September 24, 2004 Share Posted September 24, 2004 Yeah, its the milk. Cosmo, I had heard that the #40 was well under 3000lbs. I guess I heard wrong. TimN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racercosmo Posted September 24, 2004 Share Posted September 24, 2004 Tim, Guy's car can be very light, but Old Blue is a pig. It seems that whenever it gets lightened, something else goes on that makes up for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tnmustcobra Posted October 12, 2004 Share Posted October 12, 2004 I don't think that AIX should utilize a HP/Torque rule. If someone builds a car with huge horsepower, let them come and play. They will find there is a lot more to road racing than just HP (of course it can be handy ! ). Having to put cars on the dyno is time consuming and with all that horsepower, sometimes things could get dicey. If there was a HP/Torque rule, then where is a fair starting point for anyone who has already built a car with more than the rules would allow. I know that big HP is not cheap (neither is a well built sub 350 RWHP engine) and for anyone who has built one beyond any HP limits, then they would have to spend more money to rebuild or make changes to the current engine. I have never had my car on the dyno and have no idea how much the car makes....but I do know that some of the cars I raced this season were comparably built, as speeds down the straights were very similar. I say, concentrate on car weights, maximum wheel widths (I like 12" myself) and suspension related issues and don't impose any HP/Torque maximum rules. David Morrison #9 AIX Kenny Brown Equipped 1988 Mustang NASA Southeast Region Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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