Black Horse Posted September 29, 2004 Share Posted September 29, 2004 OK folks.....I have been thinking about the entire state of things for quite sometime, the issues of HP vs. Torque, the direction AIX could go, the direction AI is going...and on and on..... Here is a proposal that the roundy-pounders in some series have been using for years to allow the rules to be more vague (read this allow more flexibility) but not let things get out of hand. I propose a claimer rule. We could put a dollar claim value on an engine or the entire vehicle in each series. For example: a $10,000 engine claimer with a $30,000 overall vehicle claimer for AI. And perhaps a $20,000 engine with a $50,000 vehicle for AIX. ($ amounts should be discussed further). A competitor has the right to "claim" your engine or entire vehicle if the amount is presented - no questions. This would/could keep the series on a more level playing field, hopefully keeping someone from dumping a ton of dollars into a car to dominate. This would (hopefully) allow more entry level folks the chance to be competitive without selling their sole. I know this is a stretch, those that have been around a local stock car track already may know the value this brings to keep things in check. Does it work? It did quite well when I was involved with circle tracking years ago. Did anyone ever "claim" a car? Only once, to my recollection, was an engine "claimed" - and that was actually by the race series director (long story). It sure kept the rule book thin but allowed incredibly even competition. ~zipping up the fire suit~ fire away! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizlbits Posted September 29, 2004 Share Posted September 29, 2004 I'm in. I even like the amounts for AIX. If someone thinks my car is worth 50K, I've got a lot of other things I could sell that person also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwilson7 Posted September 29, 2004 Share Posted September 29, 2004 I don't think so. That rule comes in and I'm out in a heartbeat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted September 29, 2004 Share Posted September 29, 2004 (edited) Hahahaha.... I've got a TOTAL of $6k in my car (including the car and spares). I love it! Edited September 29, 2004 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizlbits Posted September 29, 2004 Share Posted September 29, 2004 Now that I think about it, it would suck, unless the person "claiming" would have to cough up the money, and his motor / car so the person being claimed would have something to run. Senario- Someone claims my car the 1st race of the season. I am done racing due to the fact it would take me 1 or 2 years to build a new car, or buy one and fix it up. While that is happening you are now not getting any points, and aren't racing (having fun), and now a lot of tempers will flare. The next thing we know, we will all be having fistfights in the pits against Cooter, Bubba, & Billy-Bob. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff F Posted September 29, 2004 Share Posted September 29, 2004 I think not. The purpose of a clamier rule is limit the investment that people are willing to put into an engine or car, which is essentially to save the people running the series the bother of policing the rules. We already have that in AI-- it's the HP/TQ to weight rule. If you need to spend $10K to make 310HP (or 350 for that matter) then that is your own problem-- but it doesn't put you at an advantage to anyone else. I'm not sure how you got the idea that it's expensive to build a competitive AI car, or that somehow costs are out of hand. Sure, to duplicate the Wilson/Tone's new car you need a lot of dough, but there is a lot on that car that is nice, but unnecessary. Look at Greg Brown's or Robin Burnett's cars. Do they look like they would be expensive to reproduce? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbolx Posted September 29, 2004 Share Posted September 29, 2004 The problem lies not in the actual dollars, but the time to put the car or engine together. Not all of us work 8-4 with every evening and weekend available to work on the car. I'm lucky I have enough time to show up to events as it is. If someone gave me $30k for the car, I'd be far more likely to go buy a newer C5 that I can drive tomorrow than start a new project car mid-season. I like the idea of parity, but not at the expense of participation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jim P. Posted September 29, 2004 Members Share Posted September 29, 2004 Sounds like a great idea to me! $10k - CMC $30k - AI $50k - AIX Posted as a Racer and NOT a director Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Horse Posted September 29, 2004 Author Share Posted September 29, 2004 After fielding a couple of phone calls and emails (mostly by a few that didn't understand how a claim rule really works) I figured I would post an short example (This one is from the American Race Truck Rule Book). ENGINE CLAIMER RULE 1. Any engine in any race truck finishing in the first three positions of the feature race is subject to claim by other competitors. 2. Only those competitors finishing in positions 2 through 10 may claim an engine. 3. Only a driver may make a claim on an engine and the claiming party's engine must be running at the time of the claim. 4. Only those competitors who finish the feature race on the same lap as the winner may make a claim. 5. An engine claiming fee of $2,500 cash will be charged to the claiming party. 6. The owner of the engine subject to the claim may choose to receive the claiming party's engine plus $250 as consideration for the claim. 7. ARTS will retain $250 of the claiming fee. 8. A claim may only be announced within the provisions of the Protest section of the Rule Book. 9. The ARTS official in charge may make a claim at any time during an ARTS sanctioned race event by notifying the competitor of such claim. The claim will be made by providing the competitor with an ARTS prepared engine as consideration for the claim. 10. In the event that a competitor denies the ARTS claim, ARTS may disqualify the competitor as provided in the Penalties section of the Rule Book. 11. In the event that a competitor denies a claim made by another competitor, ARTS may disqualify the competitor as provided in the Penalties section of the Rule Book. 12. Any competitor found claiming an engine for any other competitor, or outside the intent of this rule, will be subject to the provisions of the Penalties section of the Rule Book. 13. Any engine claimed will include all parts attached to the engine except hoses and wiring. This is only posted to give you an idea of how is works in other race venues - some speedways have their own rules, other race series vary as well. If we were to adopt s similar rule we would need to spend some time to outline the rule to fit our particular series, especially as to the claim fee, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racercosmo Posted September 29, 2004 Share Posted September 29, 2004 No. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwilson7 Posted September 29, 2004 Share Posted September 29, 2004 Now that you have explained yourself I still say NO! I personally don't have time to be removing engines and building new cars. The only person that likes this idea is the guy who is renting out cars to the series. Does anyone else see anything wrong with that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jim P. Posted September 29, 2004 Members Share Posted September 29, 2004 Almost all of the round track race series have some type of claim rule to make things even. Even Lowes has a $750 claim rule for the cars in their dirt series..."Road Hawgs" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Shugg Posted September 29, 2004 Share Posted September 29, 2004 No. I agree. Don't like it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Horse Posted September 29, 2004 Author Share Posted September 29, 2004 For the record - If put to a vote I vote NO I just made the proposal to initate conversation as a means of getting past some of the present obstacles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racercosmo Posted September 29, 2004 Share Posted September 29, 2004 No. I agree. Don't like it. Bryan, wouldn't that be a good way to put a new motor in your car? "Please, somebody claim my engine!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hal Posted September 29, 2004 Share Posted September 29, 2004 no thanks...i like my car and that 'like' is part of the racing experience for me...no claimer support here... ai west #46 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbrown8439 Posted September 29, 2004 Share Posted September 29, 2004 Look at Greg Brown's or Robin Burnett's cars. Do they look like they would be expensive to reproduce? Hey! I resemble that remark! I vote no! Greg Brown AI #7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff F Posted September 29, 2004 Share Posted September 29, 2004 Hey! I resemble that remark! Take it as a compliment. I'd much rather be fast in a cheap car than slow in an expensive car. BTW, I ignored the rear fenders in the cost to reproduce, as I don't think it's really necessary. Nifty, but not necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted September 30, 2004 Share Posted September 30, 2004 ...first guy that claims my motor for $400 can have it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onralz Posted September 30, 2004 Share Posted September 30, 2004 I'm only for it if someone wants to give me $30k for my car right now. Seriously I don't see how this would solve any problems we have now, or any potential future ones. One of the things that AI has going for it is exposure and part of that is knowing what face, or internet sig goes with which car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Shugg Posted September 30, 2004 Share Posted September 30, 2004 Bryan, wouldn't that be a good way to put a new motor in your car? "Please, somebody claim my engine!" With Cos' suggestion taken under consideration, I now like the claimer rule. But let's put a cap on how many engines can be taken out of any one car in a given season - let's say 1. Then, I'd vote yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jim P. Posted September 30, 2004 Members Share Posted September 30, 2004 I am glad to see everyone is starting to see my point... Go ahead and set a claim rule, make it have substance, a fair value for what it would cost to theoretically replace the average competitive car/engine in a short period of time - and enforce it. It is just another way, like dynos and scales of keeping racers honest Posted as a racer and NOT a director Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Shugg Posted September 30, 2004 Share Posted September 30, 2004 I am glad to see everyone is starting to see my point... I'm not certain if you're referring to my post Jim. But I was joking about voting 'yes' for the claimer rule. For the record, I'm still NO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jim P. Posted September 30, 2004 Members Share Posted September 30, 2004 I was actually referring to Luna's post about accepting $30k for his car... I think the key here is to limit spending to win - not buy everyone's car - what you have to realize is that to claim someone's car you would have to have $30k + any claim fee - say 10%? - I am pretty sure many of us would take a year off an build a new car if given $30k for our existing car... think of the car you could build now that you have overcome all the mistakes along the way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff F Posted September 30, 2004 Share Posted September 30, 2004 I am pretty sure many of us would take a year off an build a new car if given $30k for our existing car... think of the car you could build now that you have overcome all the mistakes along the way Not a chance. While I could easily reproduce my car for $30K and have change to spare, I'm in it for the driving, not the car building. Not that I don't like working on the car, but driving it is the #1 priority and I wouldn't trade my track time for anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.