Neon2dmaX Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 Greg: The question posed to me was whether a two driver team could enter one vehicle with the team drivers sharing the driving responsibility and points? I know that Ryan and John have allowed multiple drivers in an HPDE car, but then again, HPDE doesn't really have a strict set of rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FocusTed Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 Greg: The question posed to me was whether a two driver team could enter one vehicle with the team drivers sharing the driving responsibility and points? I know that Ryan and John have allowed multiple drivers in an HPDE car, but then again, HPDE doesn't really have a strict set of rules. I think that happen this year in TT.... Both Jim Gilliam and Steve Grijalva used their Corvette ZO6 and shared the points. I think if it allows more people to run TT events... I'm all for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
National Staff Greg G. Posted December 1, 2004 National Staff Share Posted December 1, 2004 I don't have a problem with it myself as long as both drivers are TT qualified. We did have one team this year as Ted stated above. This was approved by Ryan. As long as the NASA Regional Director approves them, then I think it's ok, although I don't recommend it in general. I'd much rather have the TT drivers competiting as individuals. One exception may be for two drivers that are also race drivers, and want more track time/competition so they decide to team up for TT. If we allow these teams, then they would need to be established from the time that the car is classified, and continue with the same team for the season. I'm not going to allow someone to bring in substitute (ie. pro, ringers, etc.) drivers to help push themselves up in the standings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neon2dmaX Posted December 1, 2004 Author Share Posted December 1, 2004 O.K. Just to be sure that I have this straight. If I want to use a ringer, I have to use him/her all year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FocusTed Posted December 1, 2004 Share Posted December 1, 2004 a ringer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
National Staff Greg G. Posted December 1, 2004 National Staff Share Posted December 1, 2004 O.K. Just to be sure that I have this straight. If I want to use a ringer, I have to use him/her all year? I would look at it a little differently than that. The "ringer" would be the actual competitor, while you were the "extra" driver that helps to boost the "ringer's" ego by continuously getting higher lap times in the same car. And as a reward for your year of humiliation, you get your name next to the "ringers" on a trophy that the two of you can take turns sharing over the years....one week at your house, the next week at his private car museum. Actually, my point was that a team would be known as a team from the start, and would have to finish that way. Driver A couldn't start as a team with Driver B, then half way through the season get divorced from Driver B and decide that he wants to continue with the points (and only his name on stats/websites/trophies/articles etc.) Or similarly, Driver A can't pick up a "ringer" part way through the season, use the ringer to get some wins mid-season, and then claim to be running as an individual the last few events of the season to be named a champion as an individual. I don't have any problem with team drivers per se. They are obviously used for the enduros, many of the professional road race series, as well as NASA race series. It is just my personal opinion that TT is an individual sport. It can also be an expensive sport, and that is one of the reasons that we should allow the teams. Like Ted said, it would be better to recruit a new team of two drivers to TT, than to lose both of them. However, I think that it makes for better, more consistent competition to have individual drivers. As well, it gives drivers twice as much seat time and experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vavooooom Posted December 1, 2004 Share Posted December 1, 2004 HI, I HAVE ONE SIGNIFICANT PROBLEM THAT CAN PROBABLY BE OVERCOME WITH MORE THAN ONE DRIVER IN A CAR. WHICH DRIVER IS IN THE CAR RIGHT NOW? AS WE ALL HAVE SEEN THERE HAVE BEEN DRIVERS WHO LACKED THE REQUISITE TALENT TO CONSISTENTLY NEGOTIATE THE TRACK SURFACE WITHOUT GOING OFF ROADING OR AT LEAST CROSS ROADING. IF WE CAN IDENTITY DRIVERS A AND B EASILY BEFORE AN OVERTAKE IT COULD BE MUCH SAFER FOR US IN KNOWING HOW MUCH TRUST WE SHOULD HAVE. SAME THING WHEN DIFFERENT DRIVERS ARE OVERTAKING US. WE ALL ESTIMATE BASED ON EXPERIENCE HOW MUCH "RACING" ROOM ANOTHER CAR NEEDS TO GET BY SAFELY. IN THAT WE ARE NOT CAGED PER SE THIS HAS CONCERNED ME SEVERAL TIMERS IN TURN 8/9 WILLOW AND TALLADEGA AT BUTTONWILLOW. ONE DRIVER WAS FLAT OUT THERE NEXT SESSION THE DRIVER WENT IN FAST THEN SLOWED AT THE APEX ... WHILE I WAS GENERATING A FULL HEAD OF STEAM . MAYBE WE COULD PUT SOME CONTRASTING COLORED TAPE ON THE FRONT AND REAR BUMPERS WHEN THE LESS EXPERIENCED DRIVER IS OCCUPYING THE SEAT? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neon2dmaX Posted December 1, 2004 Author Share Posted December 1, 2004 Wait a minute!! Even baseball has a trading deadline somewhere in August. You mean I have to be married to the other driver for the entire year? Actually, my comment about using a "ringer" for the entire year was intended to be humorous, but now you have me thinking... As for overtaking and passing other drivers, since all TT drivers are supposed to be HPDE 4 qualified, I am not terribly concerned about the distinguishing one particular driver from another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricardo Posted December 2, 2004 Share Posted December 2, 2004 neon 2 the max, who are you? do I know you, just curious. My 2 cents on this is that if we are gonna have teams in TT then one should list the drivers that will be using the car within the season so that we have no surprizes. This also gives us one man teams to apply strategies on the other or different drivers. Another thing I would consider though Im not the organizer but I would name the teams and issue trophies and points to the team and not the driver. This gives value to the victories. I dont know if I explained myself correctly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neon2dmaX Posted December 2, 2004 Author Share Posted December 2, 2004 neon 2 the max, who are you? do I know you, just curious. My 2 cents on this is that if we are gonna have teams in TT then one should list the drivers that will be using the car within the season so that we have no surprizes. This also gives us one man teams to apply strategies on the other or different drivers. Another thing I would consider though Im not the organizer but I would name the teams and issue trophies and points to the team and not the driver. This gives value to the victories. I dont know if I explained myself correctly. Close enough! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
National Staff Greg G. Posted December 7, 2004 National Staff Share Posted December 7, 2004 Ricky, I agree with you. If we allow teams, then the teams need to be named, the drivers need to be named from the start, and no changes to the team are allowed. If a change needs to be made (for example, someone can no longer drive the rest of the season), then a new team would need to be made, starting fresh on points. However, the remaining driver could, of course, continue on his own, using the team's name and finish the season. You did meet Neon2dmax at Willow Springs when he was looking at my car (the day it had the throw-out bearing problem). His name is Dave. After all of his suggestions for TT this year, he sure better be running with us . He's going to be running in Spec Neon also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neon2dmaX Posted December 7, 2004 Author Share Posted December 7, 2004 I have actually been a little disappointed in the limited number of potential participants for Spec Neon. In addition, the fact that one can "compete" in TT on street tires has its charms. In any event, please reserve number 49 for me. Might enter as a team if I can find a ringer. Dave Cordier aka Neon2dmaX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
National Staff Greg G. Posted December 7, 2004 National Staff Share Posted December 7, 2004 Ok, #49 it is. There aren't too many TT drivers using street tires, though. Also, whenever a spec class first gets started, the number of participants tends to be low. It then grows from there once word gets around about the benefits of the class (which usually happens after the class has started racing and people can see how things are). There are certainly enough cheap Neons out there that can be modified for Spec Neon pretty inexpensively, and it is definitely a fun car to drive on the track. So, I would say to give it a chance. Be a pioneer, and help us to grow the series. It looks like there will be more interest in the Eastern U.S. to start, because there are guys already running in spec Neon cars there. But, that doesn't mean that it can't catch on quickly here. It's really the "Field of Dreams" theory that's in play. "Build it (the series), and they will come." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCBCPA Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 This team thing has got me thinking. My son is going through the HDPE series now and I want to run TT. When he develops into the TT as some point, we both will be competing in TT. So is it the car that is register or the driver? Why share the points? I guess this is the competitive side of me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
National Staff Greg G. Posted March 8, 2005 National Staff Share Posted March 8, 2005 (edited) The competition is one between drivers, not between cars. However, logistically it becomes more difficult to ensure accuracy with scoring when two drivers are sharing a car. Unless you use two separate transponders, then the timing computer will always list only one driver's name on the print-outs. Then, it will be up to the TT Director and the two drivers to figure out which one of them was driving during which session. It becomes completely impossible without two transponders if you share time in the same run session. It might not be that big of a deal if there is only one pair of drivers sharing a car at an event, but if there are a bunch, then it becomes a big PIA for the TT Director. So, ultimately, it will be up to your TT Director if you would be allowed to share a car and both compete (or even compete as a team for that matter--I allow it in SoCal, but that doesn't mean that another region has to). Edited March 9, 2005 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCBCPA Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 Thanks Greg, I will check with Jim when we get up to Mid-Ohio April 1st. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FocusTed Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 The competition is one between drivers, not between cars. However, logistically it becomes more difficult to ensure accuracy with scoring when two drivers are sharing a car. Unless you use two separate transponders, then the timing computer will always list only one driver's name on the print-outs. Then, it will be up to the TT Director and the two drivers to figure out which one of them was driving during which session. It becomes completely impossible without two transponders if you share time in the same run session. It might not be that big of a deal if there is only one pair of drivers sharing a car at an event, but if there a bunch, then it becomes a big PIA for the TT Director. So, ultimately, it will be up to your TT Director if you would be allowed to share a car and both compete (or even compete as a team for that matter--I allow it in SoCal, but that doesn't mean that another region has to). Maybe we should strap the transponders on the drivers.... not the car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mansier Posted March 9, 2005 Share Posted March 9, 2005 The team rule states that the team has to be determined and presented to the Region Director (or Series Director at the RD's discretion) prior to any of the drivers competing for the first time in a championship season. For example, Rick Gilbert and I will be driving a TTB Camaro at Mid Ohio April 1-3. Since I am the Region Director, I am deferring the approval to the Series Director Jim Petroski, and sending him an email with our team list. We can change car or class, but cannot change the team after that. Hope that helps. This is a great way for two or more drivers to share costs and have a great time together. Determining who is in the car should be done by the competitors, and grid personell. Knowing who is in the car is very important to us in Race Control so that in the event of a crash or other problem we can talk to the driver or even call the correct emergency contact (God forbid). Good luck to all in your TT season! LM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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