pederb Posted February 9, 2005 Share Posted February 9, 2005 Why would you assume so? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 9, 2005 Share Posted February 9, 2005 Why would you assume so? I can guarantee without a doubt that I am 100% correct in saying that none of the boy racers that were running down in Daytona would be legal to run in AI or NASA.....[insert Starship Troopers voice] Want to know more? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swhiteh3 Posted February 9, 2005 Share Posted February 9, 2005 The 2005 Mustang was homologated in Grand-Am Cup class GS with the 5.0L mod engine. The max. weight is 3125#'s. I assume the pushrod engine is no longer eligible in GAC. The 1995 Cobra R was the last car homologated for GAC with a Ford pushrod motor, and it's homologation expired in 2003. As is Grand-Am policy, all cars homologation expires 5 years from the last year when that body style is manufactured. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pederb Posted February 9, 2005 Share Posted February 9, 2005 Brian please tell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwilson7 Posted February 9, 2005 Author Share Posted February 9, 2005 I know of two ways....... One is evident in the press pictures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gotpwr Posted February 10, 2005 Share Posted February 10, 2005 Why would you assume so? I can guarantee without a doubt that I am 100% correct in saying that none of the boy racers that were running down in Daytona would be legal to run in AI or NASA.....[insert Starship Troopers voice] Want to know more? Yes. I don't see any reason why you couldn't run one of the "boy racers" in AIX. Apparently I am missing something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tacovini Posted February 10, 2005 Share Posted February 10, 2005 Lemme guess. The Rear roll cage X-brace. NASA rules stipulate that the rear downbars are required to go straight back. The X-bars are optional....the downbars are required. But that's not a show stopper...2 bars and a little bit-0-welding and they're in! What's the other reason? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwilson7 Posted February 10, 2005 Author Share Posted February 10, 2005 Didn't think of that one....ok...there are THREE reasons why they can't run in AI. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
95CobraR Posted February 10, 2005 Share Posted February 10, 2005 Per Rule 6.1(b), we are working on defining limits for this car as well as some others including 3rd gen and 4th gen F-bodies. When we do have a limit defined we will post it here as a technical bulletin. I was thinking of this post. Nothing has been posted. I wasn't refering to a GAC legal car being allowed in NASA. I was thinking on a 2005 Mustang built to the rules as currently posted in the NASA rule book (but with adjustments as needed for the new platform). I would think that a sponsor may like to target the new platform as a billboard for their services. A Ford dealer would rather sponsor the car they are selling rather than a car they have already sold. The aftermarket would like to advertise their new products for the new platform. I think the spectators would like to see the new car on the track. I know a racer that would like to see the car on track and would enjoy the challenge of building one of the first cars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizlbits Posted February 10, 2005 Share Posted February 10, 2005 How about the roll cage isn't welded all the way around on the top hoop? How about that the floor was cut out and replaced in the back seat area? Both of those can be fixed if amibitious enough however..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gotpwr Posted February 10, 2005 Share Posted February 10, 2005 Per Rule 6.1(b), we are working on defining limits for this car as well as some others including 3rd gen and 4th gen F-bodies. When we do have a limit defined we will post it here as a technical bulletin. I was thinking of this post. Nothing has been posted. I wasn't refering to a GAC legal car being allowed in NASA. I was thinking on a 2005 Mustang built to the rules as currently posted in the NASA rule book (but with adjustments as needed for the new platform). I would think that a sponsor may like to target the new platform as a billboard for their services. A Ford dealer would rather sponsor the car they are selling rather than a car they have already sold. The aftermarket would like to advertise their new products for the new platform. I think the spectators would like to see the new car on the track. I know a racer that would like to see the car on track and would enjoy the challenge of building one of the first cars. I agree completely. I could care less about playing a guessing game on why a GAC car isn't NASA legal. I'm just curious whether anyone is building an '05 AI car and what kind of power they are using. I would really like to see a 4.6L 3V powered '05 AI car. Are you planning on converting that '05 GT you ordered into an AI car? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 10, 2005 Share Posted February 10, 2005 I know of 2 being built for this year and they are both using pushrod engines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnbasf Posted February 10, 2005 Share Posted February 10, 2005 I know of 2 being built for this year and they are both using pushrod engines. Built for what??? The '05 is not approved for AI. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 10, 2005 Share Posted February 10, 2005 I know of 2 being built for this year and they are both using pushrod engines. Built for what??? The '05 is not approved for AI. Yes they are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnbasf Posted February 10, 2005 Share Posted February 10, 2005 I know of 2 being built for this year and they are both using pushrod engines. Built for what??? The '05 is not approved for AI. Yes they are. Where was that announced?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizlbits Posted February 10, 2005 Share Posted February 10, 2005 Built for what??? The '05 is not approved for AI. Where was that announced?? This is exactly how rumors get started. JWL has posted in at least two threads in here that the directors are working on dimensions for the 05. It has NEVER been stated that they are not approved. I recommend doing some reseach before making a statement like that which has no tech. The race series has been criticized for jumping the gun on decisions in the past. JWL & the directors have been checking (and double checking, debating, hashing over, and researching) dimensions of the 05 so the rules can be posted in the near future in a technical bulletin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 10, 2005 Share Posted February 10, 2005 Built for what??? The '05 is not approved for AI. Where was that announced?? This is exactly how rumors get started. JWL has posted in at least two threads in here that the directors are working on dimensions for the 05. It has NEVER been stated that they are not approved. I recommend doing some reseach before making a statement like that which has no tech. The race series has been criticized for jumping the gun on decisions in the past. JWL & the directors have been checking (and double checking, debating, hashing over, and researching) dimensions of the 05 so the rules can be posted in the near future in a technical bulletin. Chris, did you measure any of the 05's down in Daytona? Also without a number of brake upgrades/packages available (which determine the wheel offset) how are you/directors/rules makers coming up with the maximum width of the car? I wonder who would have access to all that information...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizlbits Posted February 10, 2005 Share Posted February 10, 2005 Chris, did you measure any of the 05's down in Daytona? Also without a number of brake upgrades/packages available (which determine the wheel offset) how are you/directors/rules makers coming up with the maximum width of the car? I wonder who would have access to all that information...... No, I did not. The measurements we are starting from are STOCK cars, V6's, GT's etc. Measuring a car that has a good possibility to be modified (boy racer) is not a very good way to base the rules for a series. Who really knows what Ford did to the cars at Daytona (besides Wilson & yourself)? We have asked aftermarket suppliers about brake packages, offsets, figuring camber, etc to determine width. They have also picked up cars from dealers to get stock dimensions as needed. Detroit is not the only place a Mustang can be measured. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 10, 2005 Share Posted February 10, 2005 No, I did not. The measurements we are starting from are STOCK cars, V6's, GT's etc. Measuring a car that has a good possibility to be modified (boy racer) is not a very good way to base the rules for a series. Who really knows what Ford did to the cars at Daytona (besides Wilson & yourself)? We have asked aftermarket suppliers about brake packages, offsets, figuring camber, etc to determine width. They have also picked up cars from dealers to get stock dimensions as needed. Detroit is not the only place a Mustang can be measured. I would have thought that the BR would have been a great data point as that is the factory engineered race car with wider wheels/tires and bigger brakes.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnbasf Posted February 10, 2005 Share Posted February 10, 2005 Built for what??? The '05 is not approved for AI. Where was that announced?? This is exactly how rumors get started. JWL has posted in at least two threads in here that the directors are working on dimensions for the 05. It has NEVER been stated that they are not approved. I recommend doing some reseach before making a statement like that which has no tech. The race series has been criticized for jumping the gun on decisions in the past. JWL & the directors have been checking (and double checking, debating, hashing over, and researching) dimensions of the 05 so the rules can be posted in the near future in a technical bulletin. Re-read this thread Chris. People have asked about the rules concerning the "05 Mustang. JWL has never responded to their questions either way. I can assume from your comments that the "05 Mustang is legal for AI? Maybe you can offer some TECH. I'm in no way bashing JWL here. I'm going by what I've read in this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff F Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 John, to refresh your memory: 4. Eligible Manufacturers/Models/Configurationsa) All 1960 through present, American-made sedan vehicles certified by the United States Department of Transportation for street use at their date of manufacture. b) 100-inch wheel base minimum. c) Front engine. d) Rear wheel drive e) Solid rear axle or approved independent rear suspension (IRS)* What about a 2005 Mustang doesn't meet these rules? Just because extra restrictions have not been placed on it (yet) in section 6.1 doesn't mean it isn't legal. Camaros are legal, and they don't have any width/wheelbase restrictions. Of course I fully expect restrictions to be put on the 05's in the near future, so a car builder would be wise to not alter the track and wheelbase too much until the dust settles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnbasf Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 John, to refresh your memory: 4. Eligible Manufacturers/Models/Configurationsa) All 1960 through present, American-made sedan vehicles certified by the United States Department of Transportation for street use at their date of manufacture. b) 100-inch wheel base minimum. c) Front engine. d) Rear wheel drive e) Solid rear axle or approved independent rear suspension (IRS)* What about a 2005 Mustang doesn't meet these rules? Just because extra restrictions have not been placed on it (yet) in section 6.1 doesn't mean it isn't legal. Camaros are legal, and they don't have any width/wheelbase restrictions. Of course I fully expect restrictions to be put on the 05's in the near future, so a car builder would be wise to not alter the track and wheelbase too much until the dust settles. I see. A "stock" '05 Mustang is already legal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizlbits Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 What about a 2005 Mustang doesn't meet these rules? Just because extra restrictions have not been placed on it (yet) in section 6.1 doesn't mean it isn't legal. Thank you Jeff, that was exactly my point. Assume legal until proven illegal, not illegal until the rules are stated. You also made a good point about not getting too nuts with the altercations yet. Patience grasshopper..... I think we all need to take a step away from the keyboard. The 05 Mustang is just a car, same power to weight, same tires for AI, can't be lowered more than others, with a higher roof line, etc. It is JUST A FORD after all! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwilson7 Posted February 11, 2005 Author Share Posted February 11, 2005 One thing you seem to forget Chris is that the 05 Mustang is about 6 inches longer and a few inches wider. Given that everything else is the same (power, weight, tires etc) I car with a wider wheel track and longer wheelbase (to an extent) will be quicker. The reason why I brought this issue up in the first place is that it would really be a bitch for those people building 05 Mustangs to be told a week before the first event that their car isn't legal for some silly reason. P.S. Chris - You got one of the two but there is a CCR requirement that the boy racer breaks.... 15.4.1 The fuel tank MUST be located within 12 " of the factory tank. The fuel cell in a boy racer is located in the trunk area and is definitely more than 12" from the stock location. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bdkline Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 We are probably as far along as anyone with our 05. The car ( in my opinion) could easily run in AI. But we are not building an AI car but one for AIX. Within the current rules the car can not be built legally. We put the fuel cell in the trunk( it belongs there) It appears that the max track width can not be met with any wide tire because of the rules about not touching the stock frame rail or shock position(the rear frame rails are 10 " wider than on a SN95, and form the inside of the rear wheel well so no mini tubs. Plus the shock is outside of that). My fabricator is about ready to have another stroke over the rule about the forward tubes not passing thru the front shock towers and can not believe that anyone thinks that the front end has any strength bypassing them. Earlier in this thread I stated that we are building the car based on the rules AS WE INTERPERATE THEM , and if the car is deemed not legal it will run in unlimited or elsewhere. I have no bone to pick with national as I realize that these types of situations are hard to deal with but we are commited to having the car done and on the track in May. Barry AIX66 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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