SMSP Posted December 13, 2004 Share Posted December 13, 2004 I asked the following before. I've seen some new B series rockers coming out on the market. Can these be used since the head is free in H1? There was one response before it grenaded. I've seen RLZ with some and prototype racing, I also believe that crane is coming out with some. Could we get an official answer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianZ Posted December 13, 2004 Share Posted December 13, 2004 the rules say: If these rules do not expressly state a modification is allowed, it is prohibited c) “Above” the engine block, cylinder head preparation and porting is free. Valve size and material must conform to original specification for that particular head. Valve preparation (angle, cut, etc) is free. Springs, locks ,retainers, and shims are free. d) Camshaft(s) are free and adjustable cam gears may be used. The way I read that, you cannot use them. But hopfully an offical can clear that up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
civicrr Posted December 13, 2004 Share Posted December 13, 2004 The way the rules read now, no you can not use them. That is the official answer. What region are you in? Did you ask your Regional Leader? What a rocker that wasn't completely oem could do is alter valve lift & even duration. Given the above, does it really matter in H1? Since springs, retainers, cams & cam gears are free, are we protecting anything? IMO, no. I will try to get further input once the weekend is over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMSP Posted December 14, 2004 Author Share Posted December 14, 2004 The way the rules read now, no you can not use them. That is the official answer. What region are you in? Did you ask your Regional Leader? What a rocker that wasn't completely oem could do is alter valve lift & even duration. Given the above, does it really matter in H1? Since springs, retainers, cams & cam gears are free, are we protecting anything? IMO, no. I will try to get further input once the weekend is over. d) Camshaft(s) are free and adjustable cam gears may be used. Well I guess how I was reading it, if the camshafts are free then we could use VTEC Killer cams and these use different rockers so any rockers could be used. So I guess an official clarification would be a good idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianZ Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 Well I guess how I was reading it, if the camshafts are free then we could use VTEC Killer cams and these use different rockers so any rockers could be used. So I guess an official clarification would be a good idea. They way it reads right now, is camshafts are free, not rockers. So you would NOT be able to use that cam if you have to replace the rockers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chad Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 the rules say:If these rules do not expressly state a modification is allowed, it is prohibited c) “Above” the engine block, cylinder head preparation and porting is free. Valve size and material must conform to original specification for that particular head. Valve preparation (angle, cut, etc) is free. Springs, locks ,retainers, and shims are free. d) Camshaft(s) are free and adjustable cam gears may be used. The way I read that, you cannot use them. But hopfully an offical can clear that up. as the rules read.....i read the rockers are free and legal.....i ran them last year.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMSP Posted December 21, 2004 Author Share Posted December 21, 2004 Well this is why I asked the question. I too agree with Chad. So I won't be protesting ya Chad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianZ Posted December 21, 2004 Share Posted December 21, 2004 cylinder head preparation and porting is free as the rules read.....i read the rockers are free and legal.....i ran them last year.... Is this why you say they are legal? I could see that now.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slammed_93_hatch Posted December 21, 2004 Share Posted December 21, 2004 the rules say:If these rules do not expressly state a modification is allowed, it is prohibited c) “Above” the engine block, cylinder head preparation and porting is free. Valve size and material must conform to original specification for that particular head. Valve preparation (angle, cut, etc) is free. Springs, locks ,retainers, and shims are free. d) Camshaft(s) are free and adjustable cam gears may be used. The way I read that, you cannot use them. But hopfully an offical can clear that up. as the rules read.....i read the rockers are free and legal.....i ran them last year.... ummm im sitting here trying to figure HOW you think that rockers are free. No were does it say anything about the rockers, so again if its not exoressly mentioined its not allowed. Now if they should be allowed or not is besides the point, as the rules read right now, they are illegal to run. I think its a far strech and a cry with an arm brake in there to say that they are illegal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grumpy Posted December 24, 2004 Share Posted December 24, 2004 NOT AN OFFICIAL ANSWER. I would say if you changed the camshaft and it REQUIRED a rocker change then that would be allowed, SINCE CAMSHAFTS ARE FREE, the parts to install them should also be free. If the cam in the car does not REQUIRE the rocker change, then the rocker change is illegal. NOT AN OFFICIAL ANSWER. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thawley Posted December 24, 2004 Share Posted December 24, 2004 I would say if you changed the camshaft and it REQUIRED a rocker change then that would be allowed, SINCE CAMSHAFTS ARE FREE, the parts to install them should also be free. OR, you could look at it from the point of view that the "free" cams had damned well be designed to work with the stock rockers which are NOT free. Put another way, if the cams were so outragiously engineered that they would no longer fit in a Honda head casting, does that mean you can run an aftermarket head? I think not. (Just playing devil's advocate here; personally, I'd love to see all you rich boys be legal with Mr. Gasket crate motors and DART blocks in H1. I mean, if you're gonna spend 10-12 grand on shot peined rods, a knife-edged crank, a welded chamber and ported head and the rest, why not have a 10-12k motor with reliable aftermarket pistons and rods and give more potential sponsors a way to promote their products in NASA instead of elsewhere?) I see this issue from both sides. I really do. Just trying point out our weaknesses, so WE can come up with solutions before anyone else does... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slammed_93_hatch Posted December 24, 2004 Share Posted December 24, 2004 I would say if you changed the camshaft and it REQUIRED a rocker change then that would be allowed, SINCE CAMSHAFTS ARE FREE, the parts to install them should also be free. OR, you could look at it from the point of view that the "free" cams had damned well be designed to work with the stock rockers which are NOT free. Put another way, if the cams were so outragiously engineered that they would no longer fit in a Honda head casting, does that mean you can run an aftermarket head? I think not. (Just playing devil's advocate here; personally, I'd love to see all you rich boys be legal with Mr. Gasket crate motors and DART blocks in H1. I mean, if you're gonna spend 10-12 grand on shot peined rods, a knife-edged crank, a welded chamber and ported head and the rest, why not have a 10-12k motor with reliable aftermarket pistons and rods and give more potential sponsors a way to promote their products in NASA instead of elsewhere?) I see this issue from both sides. I really do. Just trying point out our weaknesses, so WE can come up with solutions before anyone else does... i agree with the first part of your statment. but the second part, any motor will become un-reliable if/when its pushed to a certian point. A dart or Mr gasket motor can be pushed to the raged edge and grenade just like some of the "hc" built motors have. And there are plenty of Top running HC guys who have no problem with grenading motors. but thats a whole different subject. Im guessing with in the next week or so we will see new rules with all of these issues addressed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
civicrr Posted December 24, 2004 Share Posted December 24, 2004 This issue has been discussed. Answers will be forthcoming..... Merry Christmas to all!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMSP Posted December 27, 2004 Author Share Posted December 27, 2004 Great. Do you know if there was anything discussed about the dashboard removal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
civicrr Posted December 28, 2004 Share Posted December 28, 2004 no discussion on the subject. did you have a question? does it need to be clarified in the rules? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chad Posted December 29, 2004 Share Posted December 29, 2004 cylinder head preparation and porting is free as the rules read.....i read the rockers are free and legal.....i ran them last year.... Is this why you say they are legal? I could see that now.. HEAD PREPARATION IS FREE....which means....how do i prep the head....well i have to change the rockers for the cams which is part of head prep....so it is a leagal mod! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMSP Posted December 29, 2004 Author Share Posted December 29, 2004 no discussion on the subject. did you have a question? does it need to be clarified in the rules? RyanF over in http://www.nasaforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=2374 stated that they would talk about it but if anything happened it wouldn't be until the 2005 season. So I'm just bringing this to the top again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
civicrr Posted December 31, 2004 Share Posted December 31, 2004 Thanks for reminding us. Discussion under way on a clarification or possible change in the rule. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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