muffpro Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 I have recently been told by Progressive insurance that if I put any of my vehicles on a legal track day (even an autocross) that my insurance will be cancelled. Since I just bought a car to have racing fun with I am looking to change companies. Are there any racer friendly insurance companies out there? Bruce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obzezzed350 Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 Your policy wont be cancelled but you have no coverage at the event. There are no standard companies that provide coverage for autox/hpde/racing. Think about the possible risk... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muffpro Posted October 1, 2009 Author Share Posted October 1, 2009 My letter from the company secified that they would drop me from all coverage for just competing. Weird. I would think thye would be pleased with someone doing things in the right way and legally. Bruce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vpnwiz Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 My letter from the company secified that they would drop me from all coverage for just competing. Weird. That is weird. Have you made any inquiries to them about coverage recently? Online or to your agent? Or was it a notice buried in a policy change? Just curious how they would know to single you out, if they did. There are a lot of threads on here about insurance. Some companies are more lenient than others and don't specifically exclude coverage for being on track. But it definitely varies, sometimes by state. So you have to be diligent and get a copy of the policy and actually read it There is also specific HPDE coverage you can purchase for your car that covers it only while it is at the track. Do a search on the forum here and you can stay busy for a while reading about insurance... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 take your plate off while you're at the track, and come renewal time switch companies... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muffpro Posted October 1, 2009 Author Share Posted October 1, 2009 I had inquired about my recent car purchase,(an '89 Honda Civic Hatch) and let slip that I would possibly like to auto-cross with it. As for the plate take-off (great idea by the way) I've been told that progressive checks autocross results and sometimes sends people to the tracks to see if their policy holders are racing. Just hearsay but sounds like something a company might try. Seems like they would be inclined to promote better learning of car control and safe, albeit quick, driving. I personally would rather share the road with a race-trained driver than someone who has only marginal skills as do so many driver we encounter on the road. Thanks for the replies, I'm looking for a tolerant company now and planning to change my insurance broker of 40 years over this. Bruce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 "oh, I have a second 1989 Honda that isn't registered that I trailered out there..." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muffpro Posted October 2, 2009 Author Share Posted October 2, 2009 Hmmmmmmm!! I like your thinking. LOL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidney Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 As someone who lives in the home town of the Largest Auto Insurer...State Farm, I can tell you that many insurance companies have recently changed their exclusions to include anything that happens on a racetrack. Everyone needs to read their own policy very carefully. Don't rely on what you read here or anywhere else. Each company is different and every State is different. I'd also probably not broadcast you like to play with your street car on weekends at a racetrack with your agent as this may very well get you nonrenewed. If you really can't afford to write it off, then you need to look at speciality carriers. Sidney Franklin CMC #64 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weston Posted October 4, 2009 Share Posted October 4, 2009 I had inquired about my recent car purchase,(an '89 Honda Civic Hatch) and let slip that I would possibly like to auto-cross with it. As for the plate take-off (great idea by the way) I've been told that progressive checks autocross results and sometimes sends people to the tracks to see if their policy holders are racing. Just hearsay but sounds like something a company might try. Seems like they would be inclined to promote better learning of car control and safe, albeit quick, driving. I personally would rather share the road with a race-trained driver than someone who has only marginal skills as do so many driver we encounter on the road. Thanks for the replies, I'm looking for a tolerant company now and planning to change my insurance broker of 40 years over this. Bruce As someone who has seen two expensive new BMW's totaled, and many others seriously damaged, at autocrosses, I can understand why insurance companies would exclude this from coverage. In fact, I've just as many street cars wrecked at autocross as I have in HPDE & Time Trials... light poles and curbs are real car killers. Them canceling your policy for participation seems a bit extreme though. As someone who lives in the home town of the Largest Auto Insurer...State Farm, I can tell you that many insurance companies have recently changed their exclusions to include anything that happens on a racetrack. Everyone needs to read their own policy very carefully. Don't rely on what you read here or anywhere else. Each company is different and every State is different. I'd also probably not broadcast you like to play with your street car on weekends at a racetrack with your agent as this may very well get you nonrenewed. If you really can't afford to write it off, then you need to look at speciality carriers. Sidney Franklin CMC #64 Good advice. I know that both Allstate and Progressive specifically exclude anything that happens at a race track, but haven't heard of them actually canceling anybody. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tufast Posted January 13, 2010 Share Posted January 13, 2010 Good topic & great info, thanks for the insight. I suppose I will read my policy this weekend, since I'm attending my 1st HPDE in Feb at CMD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tufast Posted January 16, 2010 Share Posted January 16, 2010 Well, I reviewed my policy & it states under Coverage for damage to your auto exclusions: Loss to your covered auto while a) Riding or driving in races b) Testing on any track or speedway. So, it doesn't state anything about learning on a track/speedway, but I can infer that they will more than likely not cover my vehicle from an incident on the track. It doesn't state anything about cancelation due to track use though. My next question is what insurance can I get just for track days that won't bankrupt my pocket? Or would it be a better idea to skip insurance considering the nature of the driving I will be doing, at lease initially I will not be pushing the car that hard & wheel-to-wheel is not a consideration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downingracing Posted January 18, 2010 Share Posted January 18, 2010 Tufast - My advice is: Do not take a vehicle on a race track that you can't leave in a ball at the track. I've seen many HPDE/PDX events with someone going home on the rollback... You don't need to be pushing your car to have a mechanical issue or have the person behind you pushing it and 'cause' you to have an issue. My opinion is not a popular one, but I only track what I own and can walk away from if/when something bad happens. And I never feel bad for the person riding home in the rollback thinking about the # of payments they still have to make on the balled up mess riding behind them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tufast Posted January 18, 2010 Share Posted January 18, 2010 Tufast - My advice is: Do not take a vehicle on a race track that you can't leave in a ball at the track. I've seen many HPDE/PDX events with someone going home on the rollback... You don't need to be pushing your car to have a mechanical issue or have the person behind you pushing it and 'cause' you to have an issue. My opinion is not a popular one, but I only track what I own and can walk away from if/when something bad happens. And I never feel bad for the person riding home in the rollback thinking about the # of payments they still have to make on the balled up mess riding behind them! Understandable, but I can't "walk away" from a car that I just purchased & still owe on. This was intended to be my "race car", but now is doing double duty as my daily driver. I can work on my own cars & I even took auto body classes at tech school when I was young, so can do body work as well. I am fully aware of what possible disasters await me on the track & I can "walk away" w/o being disgruntled about what happen, but if totalled out will need coverage to pay off. Any suggestions on temporary track only insurance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Age Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 I've worked in auto insurance my whole career. A few years ago, you would get a "pass" for a timed event, if you had a loss/claim - and clearly excluded racing (there was a distinction - I even got my agent to send me an email that stated I would be covered in a practice event but not racing event), but with any loss at the track you would typically be covered and then canceled. With the growth of HPDEs and damage that occurs at them, I can see why it leads to exclusion language like above. If you're getting a fair shake on your normal auto policy I would suggest you stick with it because no normal carrier is going to cover you for track events, although like I said you may get away with one before you get canceled but in this case with that exclusion language you won't get a coverage/cancelation. Sorry I can't help on a track day insurer but I know they are out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor57 Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 Plates off, and tape over the VIN in the windshield (from the inside.) They would need to prove that the car you were driving was the EXACT car in question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downingracing Posted January 26, 2010 Share Posted January 26, 2010 Tufast - My advice is: Do not take a vehicle on a race track that you can't leave in a ball at the track. I've seen many HPDE/PDX events with someone going home on the rollback... You don't need to be pushing your car to have a mechanical issue or have the person behind you pushing it and 'cause' you to have an issue. My opinion is not a popular one, but I only track what I own and can walk away from if/when something bad happens. And I never feel bad for the person riding home in the rollback thinking about the # of payments they still have to make on the balled up mess riding behind them! Understandable, but I can't "walk away" from a car that I just purchased & still owe on. This was intended to be my "race car", but now is doing double duty as my daily driver. I can work on my own cars & I even took auto body classes at tech school when I was young, so can do body work as well. I am fully aware of what possible disasters await me on the track & I can "walk away" w/o being disgruntled about what happen, but if totalled out will need coverage to pay off. Any suggestions on temporary track only insurance? Sounds like you need to use that car (with a payment) as a DD and pickup a car (pay cash) for a track/race car. Then you can walk away from it if/when something bad happens to it. Tracking a car you owe money on is a bad idea (IMHO). There are companies that provide on-track insurance, but I've seen the cost in the range of 35-50% of the value of the car. (Per race) Not worth purchasing since in 2-3 races, you've paid for the car... Trying to fool the ins. co. is a bad idea as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tufast Posted January 27, 2010 Share Posted January 27, 2010 (edited) Sounds like you need to use that car (with a payment) as a DD and pickup a car (pay cash) for a track/race car. Then you can walk away from it if/when something bad happens to it. Tracking a car you owe money on is a bad idea (IMHO). There are companies that provide on-track insurance, but I've seen the cost in the range of 35-50% of the value of the car. (Per race) Not worth purchasing since in 2-3 races, you've paid for the car... Trying to fool the ins. co. is a bad idea as well. I agree with most all of what you have said in both posts, esp regarding not racing a car I owe on & not trying to fool the insurance companies. But, I don't want to trust my life to a $2-3K car while pushing it on a track. In addition, I would still have to spend money & time prepping said car, fixing oil leaks, brakes, suspension, etc etc...before I could even put it on a track. Not to mention, the main reason I bought this particular car is to race it, because this is the platform I want to participate with later on & therefore would like to learn in. I have no intentions of initially "racing" this car while I still owe on it, but rather use it to learn via HPDE events. I checked with one of the supplemental insurance providers for HPDE events that was recommended from my thread on HPDE supplemental insurance & they quoted $135 per 3 day event. I think that is fair & will go this route until I finish HPDE4 & get my license to race TT. Once I have completed all HPDE levels & have my racing license, I will pay off the balance of my car if not already done so. At which time I will purchase a new DD & use this car only for the track. Thanks for response, Jerry "Tufast" Edited January 27, 2010 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
getfast Posted January 27, 2010 Share Posted January 27, 2010 This was intended to be my "race car" I'm not exactly "tracking/racing" the car I owe money on Once I get my racing license to participate in TT events prior to actual racing Sorry if I missed it but which activity are you planning to do in this car eventually... TT or racing? Both? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
getfast Posted January 27, 2010 Share Posted January 27, 2010 Nevermind, I figured it out... you're talking about TT, not racing. In that case I'd say your plan to use that same car for everything while carrying per-event insurance sounds fine, plenty of people do it. For a minute it sounded like you were talking about wheel-to-wheel racing the car while you still owed on it, which is definitely not a good idea (and good luck finding coverage for that...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDukeofEarl Posted January 28, 2010 Share Posted January 28, 2010 There are companys that issue track insurance. I was at Cal speedway a couple years back when a Lotus went into the wall. The owner had purchased the insurance and replaced the car ( with a fairly big deductable) This one is for HPDE only but there are others. http://hpdeins.locktonaffinity.com/Default.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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