Tim Comeau Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 OK, Let's visit this in the off season. What do I want for Christmas? A fire system. Since the best way to fight a fire is to not have one in the first place... What can we do to prevent fires in our 944's? The failures of the fuel rail that I've experienced are the joints of the rail mounting brackets. I have JB Welded these and made them much stronger. Why do they fail? Excessive vibration. What about the fuel lines in the engine bay? What can we do to minimize the effect of an engine fuel fire if it occurs? BEFORE THE CAR HITS THE TRACK: 1. Remove as much flammable material from the engine bay and cockpit as possible. 2. Seal off all holes in the fire wall with METAL, not tape, or foam. 3. The shift lever hole is a big opening that's sealed with a vinyl boot. Let's change that to a nomex boot. 4. Get a good fire system, not just an extinguisher. Extinguishers are for fighting fires in other driver's cars or grass fires caused by a car on fire. 5. How are hood pins part of fire safety? If you crash and have a stock hood release, the hood might not be able to be opened because of a bent stock latching system. Get hood pins and they can open the hood quickly to kill an engine fire . ONCE THE CAR IS ON THE TRACK AND ON FIRE: 1. Shut the engine off which shuts off the fuel pump. 2. Isolate the battery by the kill switch. Ideally, we should have 2 switches. 1 inside that we can hit, and one OUTSIDE, rigged in series with the first, on the driver's side of the car that the corner workers can hit. Don't make them go around to the passenger side to hit the switch them come back around to the driver's side to get your flaming ass out of the car! Don't make the corner workers reach into a smoking/flaming car to shut it off. Don't put your kill switch in a place that can be easily damaged by contact with another car. 3. Activate the fire suppression system. 4. Don't make the corner workers guess about how to open your door. No stupid systems that only you know how to open from the inside. EGRESS ROUTINE: MAKE SURE THE CARNAGE IS OVER BEFORE YOU UNBELT OR TRY TO GET OUT!! YOU DON'T WANT TO UNBELT AND THEN GET CRASHED INTO BY ANOTHER CAR! 1. Make a routine and use it every time you stop the car and get out. It should become second nature so that you can perform it as quickly as possible. I undo the harness first because it gives me more ability to move around. 2nd, slide the seat back, which gives more room. 3rd, steering wheel off, again, more room. 4th- window net down. Get out of the car and be prepared to scramble over the tranny tunnel to exit via the passenger window or door. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Comeau Posted November 15, 2009 Author Share Posted November 15, 2009 Ok guys . Heap your ideas and thoughts on here. I have sheet metal templates for both the early and late cars that we use to seal the holes in the fire wall that were used for the heating and A/C lines. Attach the sheet metal with rivets. Getting out quickly is important because you might not be able to breathe due to smoke and/or super heated air. Visor down. You might have other systems attaching you to the car such as radio wires or cool suit hoses. Make them part of your routine, but keep in mind that you can probably snap both off if you need to. Every second you spend in a car that's on fire lets the fire, and thus the air around you, get even hotter. Overlapping layers of clothing are key. This gives you more time before your skin starts to get burned. Pants cuffs go over the top of your high top shoes, not inside. Glove gauntlets are tucked up inside your sleeves. Colar of your suit is closed. Beyond just thinking about fire, I try to plan for the worst case crash scenario, which is: 1. I'm unconscious and can't help myself! 2. Car's on fire. 3. Seat won't slide. 4. I'm upside down. 5. It's dark- (night enduro or smoke) What can I do to give myself more time to survive until the safety crew arrives? --------------------- If you're upside down should you undo your harness? Can you do a handstand with one hand right now? That's what's going to happen if you pop your belts with one hand and try to hold up your full body weight with the other. You could injure your neck if you just pop and drop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bnewport Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 Where can you get hood pins and anyone got instructions for mounting them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Comeau Posted November 16, 2009 Author Share Posted November 16, 2009 They're available at most race supply outlets. Every install I've seen is custom. I added the feature of stiff springs surrounding the upright pins so that they push the hood up a little when the release pins are pulled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheap_Thrills Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 Along the same lines, and not trying to hijack your thread, I'd like to bring up converting sunroof into an escape hatch again. I know, more jokes about ejector seats are expected and it does sound kinda silly at first, but some Baja vehicles use them, NHRA funny cars they are mandatory, and some NASCAR's used to have them before the Car of Tommorrow, NASCAR still recommends them but no teams today use them because of the lost structural integrity from the hole. We already have a hole (unless you have a sunroof delete car) and the roof is already reinforced for it. The hatch would hinge at the front and latch at the rear and/or sides with the latch accesible by the driver and from the outside by rescue. NASA CCR says sunroofs need to be secured, but if it's a new piece of sheet metal and fixed in place in the front, maybe they'll say it's no longer a sunroof? Along with the installing other fire equipment, I'm thinking about building one on my car this winter to see how practical it really is. With the use of the center net and head/neck restraints, it seems like it might be easier than scrambling across the passenger side for Plan B exit. Unless someone stops me with a reason why any hazard it creates would outweigh the benefit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 Gary - I would want some way to ensure that the hatch only opened when I wanted it to (ie not during a rollover event or something like that) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingDog Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 Along the same lines, and not trying to hijack your thread, I'd like to bring up converting sunroof into an escape hatch again.I thought the CCRs required the sunroof hole to either be permanently open or permanently sealed. That would make a hatch illegal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 look up the exact wording - I think I see wiggle-room Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 read 15.13 on page 66 (or page 79 of the pdf file) seems to me so long as it has a solid latch it could be hinged or whatnot I could be missing something but I can't think of any other sections to check that apply to sunroof openings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Comeau Posted November 18, 2009 Author Share Posted November 18, 2009 Gary, I don't think the idea of going out thru the sunroof hole is crazy at all. I've already spent some time thinking about pull pins in my current bracket system. They would probably only be useful to the driver from the inside because anything on the outside might be damaged/compromised in a roll over. A third exit plan is a good thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bnewport Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 Bought sparco pins then, looking at installing them tomorrow. Any tips? Photos of where you attached the pins on the front structure would be helpful Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bnewport Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 K, I can't see where you can put the pins in the frame. The only viable spots look like the wheel wells which seems to far back and the bracket with the OEM hood release on it, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Comeau Posted November 22, 2009 Author Share Posted November 22, 2009 Billy, We've used 90 degree bent brackets of pretty stout metal and attached them to the chassis right in back of the headlights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryW Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 I posted some pics of a couple of different ways of doing it on the 944Spec.org site in your thread there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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