Simon Tibbett Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 I am building a HPDE/track day car, rules say roll cages/bars must follow the racers rules, is this always true for HPDE? Would I not be allowed to track if it were EWS (mild steel)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcmmotorsports Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 I am building a HPDE/track day car, rules say roll cages/bars must follow the racers rules, is this always true for HPDE? Would I not be allowed to track if it were EWS (mild steel)? No, you would NOT be allowed to participate in an HPDE with a ERW or EWS built cage. It must be built out of DOM. While having an ERW cage would be safer than no cage at all, that is just the way the CCR was written. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Tibbett Posted December 16, 2009 Author Share Posted December 16, 2009 How would they even know? lol They don't check. Whatever though, a friend wanted to run HPDE next year and has a mild steel cage in his car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcmmotorsports Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 How would they even know? lol They don't check. Whatever though, a friend wanted to run HPDE next year and has a mild steel cage in his car. Actually, they are supposed to check and if they do, he will probably be parked. Again, as per the CCR there should be a hole drilled in the cage so that it can be checked for construction compliance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Tibbett Posted December 16, 2009 Author Share Posted December 16, 2009 Ok, thanks. I mean I ran once and my cage wasn't even done (no rear braces) and they let me run and I see many cars with cages/bars I KNOW aren't legal per CCR. I guess it's time for him to upgrade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucid Moments Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 They are not supposed to check for HPDE. At least not in the SE. I do have a mild steel half-cage in my car. It is also DOM. Nobody has ever said anything to me about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundguydave Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 This is one of those "Catch 22" deals... For HPDE, you are not required to have a rollbar or cage (sedan/coupe), but if you DO have one, it must comply with the competition section of the CCR, which specifies DOM or CM only. For the race cars, which must comply in all respects with the CCR, there is an intensive inspection for initial logbook issuance, and a fairly comprehensive annual inspection thereafter. The HPDE inspection does not focus on the aftermarket safety gear that's installed, with the probable exception of harness installation, and probably a once-over on a bar for weld appearance. As is normal with HPDE tech, if something catches the eye of an inspector, then the car is pretty heavily examined, but really, HPDE is almost self-certified. Long and the short: You can probably "get away with" a mild steel or ERW bar or cage, but if you DO get caught, you will most likely get parked. There's a reason that only DOM or CM are allowed, and it's to keep you safe, so why not comply?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Tibbett Posted December 17, 2009 Author Share Posted December 17, 2009 Because it's already in the guys car and he was wanting to do some HPDE next season. For safety yeah it makes sense, especially in wheel to wheel, but I mean any bar/cage is safer then none in HPDE, I could see if you're using squared tubing or something lol but I mean... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Izzy's Cages Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 ERW/EWS (electrically welded tubing) and DOM are BOTH Mild Steels. Mild Steel is the type of material used. ERW, DOM, CDS etc is the process. NHRA/IHRA and some 4x sanctioning bodies are the only clubs that still allow ERW tubing. The wall thickness in ERW/EWS varies greatly (+/-.010") and there's a huge stress riser that runs down the middle of the tube (the weld itself). There really isn't that much difference between it and the square tube that you're laughing at Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nasaregistrar Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 They are not supposed to check for HPDE. At least not in the SE. I do have a mild steel half-cage in my car. It is also DOM. Nobody has ever said anything to me about it. If modifications are different from stock, then the mods must meed the CCR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 And as far as I know, failing tech does not qualify for a refund. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Tibbett Posted December 18, 2009 Author Share Posted December 18, 2009 That's fine, nobody said he would run if he fails but they also don't tech cages or bars for HPDE lol unless it looks like it should be teched. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Izzy's Cages Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 That's fine, nobody said he would run if he fails but they also don't tech cages or bars for HPDE lol unless it looks like it should be teched. Nothing like screaming "They never tech us so we'll just run whatever we want to!" I'm guessing that they'll start looking at bars a little closer now in your area Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Tibbett Posted December 20, 2009 Author Share Posted December 20, 2009 Good they should lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denshem Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 Anyone see a problem with an AUTOPOWER bolt together cage? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcmmotorsports Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 Anyone see a problem with an AUTOPOWER bolt together cage? I race with one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpanther Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 And as far as I know, failing tech does not qualify for a refund. It does. We've sent home some people due to not passing HPDE tech and they get a full refund. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Tibbett Posted December 25, 2009 Author Share Posted December 25, 2009 You race with a bolt in? I thought they had banned bolt in cages? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcmmotorsports Posted December 25, 2009 Share Posted December 25, 2009 You race with a bolt in? I thought they had banned bolt in cages? 15.6.3 Installation The cage may be removable or may be permanently welded, or any combination thereof, providing that all aspects of the cage meet these rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Tibbett Posted December 25, 2009 Author Share Posted December 25, 2009 Maybe it was SCCA IT who banned bolt in? I'm not very familiar with NASA rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted December 26, 2009 Share Posted December 26, 2009 Maybe it was SCCA IT who banned bolt in? I'm not very familiar with NASA rules. pretty sure you still can get a new logbook with just a bolt-in. and you'll notice that pretty much every club copies each other on major safety equipment (like rollcages) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formula87 Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 Anyone see a problem with an AUTOPOWER bolt together cage? I like mine, but I could do it over I would do a custom cage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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