SoCal 944 Class - Growing? Looking to join

[SethWillits]

Hi guys!

 

I've been looking through past events and it seems like the class grew quite a bit over 2009. Is there any sense of how much it is growing? Although I'm still in HPDE 3 now, the long term goal is either Spec Miata or 944 Spec and I think I'm starting to lean towards 944. Since it keeps gnawing at me, I thought I'd ask a few questions.

 

Clearly there are a lot of guys doing Spec Miata, and pretty much anyone who joins is guaranteed to be dicing it up with someone else doing the same lap times. With 944 Spec there are fewer drivers, but there always seems to be a good bunch of you at the same pace (all chasing down Charles it seems!).

 

What I'd like to get out of whichever class I get into is just some close battles. I'm definitely not setting out to win, but I'd like to at least be in the middle of the pack, with someone else a little faster than me to learn from.

 

Reading and speaking to some other guys, I've been given the impression that to be competitive in Spec Miata, you basically need to replace the entire car with new factory spec parts, but I guess that could be said of any spec class. I've seen some used Spec Miatas from the midwest put on the market for as much as $40,000. Certainly that's the extreme, but I'm wondering if within 944 Spec there a list of parts that just "should" be swapped out to even be on pace, or have you found that it's more about maintaining reliability? I think I've seen the number $10-12k floated around for building a race-ready 944. (If someone would take a stab at at listing parts and approx prices, I'm all ears.)

 

And on the topic, where do you guys in SoCal get work done on your car? Have you found any shops that somewhat specialize in 944s? We've been going to Road Race Engineering for 10 years because there's no one better for DSM/Mitsubishi cars (Talon, Eclipse, Evo). Anything similar to them around for 944?

 

 

Thanks!

[944-Spec#94]

Seth,

944 spec is mostly made up of sub 10k "junkyard cars". Sounds odd, but we don't do factory new parts.

 

Engines for example in stock form a long lasting. Therefore we do not allow overboring of the blocks. So the most you can do is re-ring the motor. The only place engine work makes any power is in the head. Stock valve job and truing of the surface will get to on par for power.

 

 

From there it comes down to bolting on the spec suspension, stripping the car to get it down to weight, putting safety gear and racing off into the sunset.

 

Ok it does take more than that since you need to align the the car right and most imporantly learn to drive it well.

 

I lead 1/2 of last years championship race using a motor I got from a $330 ebay car. I pulled the motor, put in fresh rings, bearings & seals. I had head checkout and make sure working to factory specs and put it in the car. Except for head work I did it all at home following the factory manual. The 2nd place car was build from a few left over parts the summer before he event, The 3rd place car was driven 600 miles to the event and driven back. I had the 4th place car and the winner did not have the fastest car. In fact he had the 7th fastest lap time. However he did run smart race and took the win a perfect combination of luck and skill. Those were the battles at the front, but even down the order there were epic battles.

 

The other thing about 944 spec is that in all of our regions we are like an extended family. We race each other hard on the track, but off the track we all share paddock space, tools, spare parts, and knowlege of both out to prepare the cars and drive them. We don't let guys park on the far side of the paddock all alone.

 

We even bring in new people who are still in DE and not ready for race group. Racing or not they are still part of the 944 spec family. We live the idea that racing with friends is more fun than racing alone.

 

Take a look at 944-spec.org This is our class website and we have event recap articles race results and photos from the events.

 

BTW.... Here is a list of cars for sale in Arizona to get you an idea of pricing for complete cars.

http://944spec.org/944SPEC/component/option,com_fireboard/Itemid,30/func,view/id,7002/catid,12/

 

For costs figure

Car = 1500

Cage = 1500

Suspension = 2000

Seat /Harness/Fire = $800

Brakes = $300 (pads, rotors, steel lines)

Misc parts = $500

Tires = $800 (1 set, 2 sets should last all year)

 

 

So what is that

$7400 plus your time? Labor on these cars is not that hard and most guys can DIY it all except for a weld in cage. Of course bolt-ins a legal too.

[Sterling Doc]

Joe's got it right. We pride ourselves on being open, and helping the new guys get up to speed. For us, it's all about the racing, not about the latest parts. You have one of the countries leading 944 experts/shops in Tim Comeau racing in SoCal.

 

I documented the build I did last year in detail here:

http://944spec.org/944SPEC/component/option,com_fireboard/Itemid,30/func,view/id,2589/catid,10/

[Tim Comeau]

Seth,

Welcome! We'll be at Buttonwillow Raceway this weekend if you want to drive up there. Straight up 5 north. Exit at LERDO HIGHWAY. We have agreat core of drivers here in SoCal. You can come AX with us in San Diego too, if you want more driving practice. Lots of 944's here and we have HUGE ax's.

 

Let me know how I can help you.

 

ps. Miatas are chick cars! ......

[SethWillits]

Joe's got it right. We pride ourselves on being open, and helping the new guys get up to speed. For us, it's all about the racing, not about the latest parts.

That's just what I'd like to hear.

 

 

You have one of the countries leading 944 experts/shops in Tim Comeau racing in SoCal. I documented the build I did last year in detail here:

http://944spec.org/944SPEC/component/option,com_fireboard/Itemid,30/func,view/id,2589/catid,10/

A few minutes after I posted I found his build plan which is pretty helpful. There's a lot of info in that thread too! If I had the space and tools I'd do more of the work myself for the experience, but instead I'll just have to support my local shop.

 

 

Welcome! We'll be at Buttonwillow Raceway this weekend if you want to drive up there.

Oh, I'll be there in HPDE 3 driving an Eagle Talon. I've done 5 or 6 weekends over the last few years, mostly at Buttonwillow. The car needed a full engine rebuild after it decided to die on Sunday in November , and this'll be the first event it's ready for. Since the darn thing dominoed into a being more expensive than we hoped (they're still putting in new parts as we speak), I don't think I'll get around to actually looking to replace it at least until sometime next year. The idea of renting one for a weekend from you, Tim, seems pretty good to me when it gets closer to that time.

 

 

ps. Miatas are chick cars! ......

I'm not gonna lie, that's a big reason I started looking at 944 .

 

 

Thanks for the replies guys.

[sagoston]

Welcome Seth!

 

I recently got into 944 Spec racing and my only regret is that I should have done it sooner. Even before the wheel to wheel level, it would have been better to go through HPDE with a 944 Spec. I went through HPDE with an E36 M3 and am still learning how to drive my 944 well versus my M3. The sooner you can get in a spec car the better.

 

I would also recommend that you buy a already built race car rather than build it up yourself. It will cost you less and you can buy a car that is already sorted and ready to race.

 

Just this rookie's $0.02.

[roberth944]

Seth, Todd Van Mende has his Red Bull 944 for sale. $10k will get this very cool , very competitive car. He has a thread posted here for it. I own a shop with my partner Rafi. We specialize in Porsches and Ferrari's and are both 944 spec racers. We have a Hunter digital alignment Rack, Longacre corner balance scales and tons of experience buliding and repairing these race cars. We are here to help if you need us? Rob 661 251 3278- R2 Racing

[sagoston]

That's a great car at a great price. All the right parts, professionally maintained, and well setup. And it already has two seats so you can continue getting instruction (yes even in HPDE3/4 or w2w it is still invaluable).

 

Here's the listing:

 

http://www.nasaforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=33409

 

That's $10K with a trailer included!

[kbrew8991]

+ truck, +storage, +your first born to keep racing (even 944 Spec has operating costs) but its all very much worth it

[944-Spec#94]

+ truck, +storage, +your first born to keep racing (even 944 Spec has operating costs) but its all very much worth it

 

 

No truck or storage needed.

 

Here is the track record holder from NASA Nationals (finished 3rd of 34 and lead good part of the race). On his way home.

 

He lives 650 miles away.

[kbrew8991]

just because you can...

 

All of that is just something to think about - often those are barriers that keep some people from doing the full-on wheel to wheel route is all.

[sagoston]

just because you can...

 

All of that is just something to think about - often those are barriers that keep some people from doing the full-on wheel to wheel route is all.

 

I'd have to agree with that. While 944Spec is one of the least expensive groups to race in, it's still racing and will cost. Probably more than you think it will if you haven't raced in a different series...

 

BTW, the trailer Todd has for sale with the car is a light single axle trailer he towed with an Acura MDX. Definitely a good compromise to consider when talking about a tow vehicle.

[944-Spec#94]

just because you can...

 

All of that is just something to think about - often those are barriers that keep some people from doing the full-on wheel to wheel route is all.

 

 

Ken,

It is all in fun and to show that you don't need a 48 gooseneck with 8000 spares to do well in 944 spec. You can with some planning build a competitive 944 spec and still be able to drive it to and from events. Other guys flat tow the cars too and that means no trailer and only a moderate Tow Vehicle.

 

That said I have 24ft enclosed with lots of spares and tools for my 944 being towed by an 8.0 V10 dodge 2500. That is just what makes me happy. I like to plan for "just in case".

 

 

So yes you do need to consider trucks/trailers/storage when you decide to go racing, but if you do it right you can minimize that and still have an effective competitive car.

[kbrew8991]

So yes you do need to consider trucks/trailers/storage when you decide to go racing, but if you do it right you can minimize that and still have an effective competitive car.

 

I'm using an '08 Tundra and an open trailer just fine

 

its all just something to consider before making the leap. Nothing more, nothing less. Yes you *could* drive the car to the track with a tire trailer, or do the big toterhome setup, or something in between. Take a peek at the budget, take a look at each setup, consider the upsides/downsides of each, and pick something that works for you. Gotta love having all those choices

 

This is something I see alot of as my Time Trial guys graduate from driving their street cars to the track to fully prepared cars that need towed

[944-Spec#94]

This is something I see alot of as my Time Trial guys graduate from driving their street cars to the track to fully prepared cars that need towed

 

This one place some DE guys need wise up. Sure you can take a 35k street car and mod it for DE and even TT the car. However it take alot more money to race that 35k car than to DE or TT it now and then. However if you sell ofhte 35k car you can get a 10k race car with 2k trailer 15k tow vehicle and still have cash for the race suit and Hans.

[SethWillits]

I recently got into 944 Spec racing and my only regret is that I should have done it sooner.

 

Hi Steve - I watched your videos on YouTube. Your charge from the back at the speedway in March was great. Thumbs up

 

 

I would also recommend that you buy a already built race car rather than build it up yourself. It will cost you less and you can buy a car that is already sorted and ready to race.

 

That's $10K with a trailer included!

 

It's very tempting

 

 

So yes you do need to consider trucks/trailers/storage when you decide to go racing, but if you do it right you can minimize that and still have an effective competitive car.

 

At 4 of the last 5 events we went to, something broke on the car and had to limp or be towed back home. After this rebuild it should be good to go, but we're trailering it from now on. I have no where to stick a trailer though, so U-Haul it is.

 

 

While 944Spec is one of the least expensive groups to race in, it's still racing and will cost. Probably more than you think it will if you haven't raced in a different series...

 

It's less than buying a new quality 125cc kart and racing a season! Boy was that ever an eye opener.

[kbrew8991]

no offense, but thats typical with a DSM from my friends experience with them. A 944 outta be a bit more solid

[SethWillits]

Well after 80,000 miles of hard driving, including 40 event weekends with no problems (minus one wheel hub), it was bound to start falling apart eventually.

[944-Spec#94]

Seth Flat towing as has become popular in Arizona and Colorado. I am not certain of the California rules, but it menas no trailers.

 

Th guys remove the bumpers and either attach spare bumper with tow hardware or fab a dummy bumper to the shocks or base where the shocks go in. This allows them to tow with no trailer. Fine for engine probelms, but obviously it iwll not work if you have suspension issues. Most guys dig up some old whees/street tires for flat towing and don't tow on race rubber.

[SethWillits]

Seth Flat towing as has become popular in Arizona and Colorado. I am not certain of the California rules, but it menas no trailers.

 

From what I know, it's legal only if the car is street legal, registered, and insured. Which, for the time being is the case, but won't be after the end of the year.

[b f cybronetics]

Seth let me add alittle to the thread and hopefully not confuse you more. I see from the discussion that tow rigs and trailers have entered the conversation. I do not have any of those items. I have 7's Only located at Buttonwillow maintain and store the car ($125 per month). They are honest hard working very expereinced people with Tom the owner being a long time racer. He charges very competative prices to race prep the car pior to each event. The added bonus is that for those events away from Buttonwillow he will transport my car and the spares, tools and extra tires for a price ($225-$255) per event at that rate is much less than the cost of a trailer, SUV/truck and all the extras associated with towing. He will arrive Thursday night so if you want to test on Friday the car is ready.

 

I bought a car from Tim Comeau last year. Well sorted well maintained, that way the car question was eliminated and I know that performance is all driver driven.

[Tim Comeau]

Seth,

I can't make the race at Buttonwillow this weekend. We'll be at Qualcomm stadium in San Diego on Saturday all day testing and delivering a new 944 Spec car to a customer. We have other 944 Spec cars for sale ( $10,000 and up) and a nice street/DE 944 for sale for $4500. We have other starters as well. If you want to come down to San Diego, I'll share my experience with you on the cars and the class.

 

Tim Comeau

619.994.0919

[944-Spec#94]

Seth Flat towing as has become popular in Arizona and Colorado. I am not certain of the California rules, but it menas no trailers.

 

From what I know, it's legal only if the car is street legal, registered, and insured. Which, for the time being is the case, but won't be after the end of the year.

 

 

The good news is that you can still have a competitive 944 spec car that meets the letter of law in the above areas. Then you just flat tow it to the track.