sagoston Posted April 21, 2010 Share Posted April 21, 2010 I'm thinking about removing some weight from the car and adding ballast but would first like to know if it's really worthwhile. Does anyone know (educated guesses welcome) how much time removing weight and adding ballast is worth? Any specific examples, "I removed XX lbs, added XX lbs of ballast, and went x.xx seconds per lap faster". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
944-Spec#94 Posted April 21, 2010 Share Posted April 21, 2010 I'm thinking about removing some weight from the car and adding ballast but would first like to know if it's really worthwhile. Does anyone know (educated guesses welcome) how much time removing weight and adding ballast is worth? Any specific examples, "I removed XX lbs, added XX lbs of ballast, and went x.xx seconds per lap faster". There are guys that run fast and are 50lbs over weight. So trying to pin down what 25lbs of ballast is worth just is never going to happen. I don't believe the difference is enough for us to see given all the other variables. The only thing that may be affected is balance. At least with my car the passeger's seat are has the least impact on balance. If I go with a full tank the balance changes and that impact lap times. However weight in legally allow balast area does not impact balance. I can take out or put it in and the balance remains. That is one reason my cool suit cooler is in the passenger's seat floorboards. So feel free to have it. For me I gave up weight reductions in the chassis when I started needing to add ballast. I figured why bother at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sagoston Posted April 21, 2010 Author Share Posted April 21, 2010 I'm currently at spec min weight when empty so at this point I'm simply shifting the weight from all over the car to a more ideal location. So how much weight would need to be shifted before seeing a measurable difference in lap times. Surely 80-100lbs of lead down low on the passenger floor is worth something. Just wonder how much to shoot for, if it's even worthwhile... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbuzz Posted April 22, 2010 Share Posted April 22, 2010 Alot of that will come from the ability to drive the car at 100% all the time. Consistent lap times are what wins races. I know my car is faster with the amount of weight I have relocated. I now have 90 lbs of weight on the passenger floor with at least 20 more lbs of wright reduction to go. My car scales better than it used to. It is still heavy on the drivers side but it is getting closer. My cross weights are easier to achieve. My Center of Gravity is alot lower now with the re-located weight. Steve I would do the weight reductions and work on being smooth and consistent. You are getting faster and you may as well optimize your car. John N. is knocking on your door. Jim Foxx just got a new head for his car (he had 4 broken valve springs). Jim Richmond is getting his car sorted out and will be charging to the front. Tim C. will hopefully bring a competitive car to the track someday And if you got the time and are bored it may be the best performance dollar you spend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sagoston Posted April 22, 2010 Author Share Posted April 22, 2010 I should be able to get ~40lbs relocated by the next event. Beyond that, it will take a lot more time and effort to find weight to move. And I doubt I'll ever get anywhere near 100+ lbs of ballast, maybe if the driver lost A LOT of weight Regarding the driver, I know I've made progress (especially with the enduro last weekend) but I also know I have plenty of room for improvement. The field is tight and it's getting closer with every race. What is the most troubling to me is that the leading driver is currently 2-3 seconds a lap faster. I can only win if that driver makes a huge mistake or his car breaks, neither of which is how I want to win. I have a very hard time accepting this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted April 22, 2010 Share Posted April 22, 2010 left vs right side weight may matter at some tracks more than others... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbuzz Posted April 22, 2010 Share Posted April 22, 2010 Steve you drove my car so you know that there is a huge car difference as well. My car has lots of grip and good power. I started racing Karts in 1995 (15 years ago). It did not come easy. Lots of test days, racing NASA and SCCA for at least 5 years. Reading every racing book I could find and then putting it all to use on the track. My biggest eye opener to improve my driving came from using data aquisition. I found out and accepted that I was the weak link. I have spent the last 5 years focused on improving my driving technic (sp). Learning to get the most out of the car. Driving consistent laps, minimizing mistakes, learning the proper technic for off line passes. That has all come together now that I have an excellant car. I got lucky on that purchase, I thought I was already driving the best car. The #999 car is very good, just not this good. So don't beat your self up over this. I have thousands of laps of practice more than you (especially at BW). Focus on your driving, you have the skills it just takes time and practice. You are way ahead of the curve already. You ran faster laps in the Enduro than me. So that should tell you something. Confidence in your ability is KING!!!!! Now go get em' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sagoston Posted April 22, 2010 Author Share Posted April 22, 2010 Thanks Charlie, your words of encouragement always help. Believe me, I know your car is faster than mine. It has incredible amounts of grip. Where my car starts to slide, your car simply sticks. When I drove your car in morning practice, I went faster driving it at 8/10ths than I could drive my car the rest of the day. And that's really what this thread was all about. After seeing how much potential these cars have, I know there's a lot to do to get my car faster. Moving weight around is one of the few things I can do. Suspension setup, components, etc... will be a different thread(s). As for my driving, I know I have plenty of time to learn and improve. Could I have had a better drive last weekend, absolutely (especially Sunday's sprint race)!!! But I'm certainly not beating myself up over it, at least not anymore. It's simply very hard for me to accept not being as competitive as I'd like to be. I can only hope to keep improving and closing the gap, hopefully with a little more patience... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbuzz Posted April 23, 2010 Share Posted April 23, 2010 I have no issue sharing information about setup, tire temps and pressures, suspension bushings etc. I plan to take this car apart soon to look at everything closely. It would be great to know what makes it work so good and pass that info on. I have been able to drive this car faster at each event due to the high level of confidence in the car and new found confidence in my abilities. It will be for sale at the end of the year. Are there any opening bids? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Dog Posted April 24, 2010 Share Posted April 24, 2010 Big Dog opens the bidding for $100 cash (subject to a clean title and lots and lots of spares including an engine and two heads). Your really, really good friend, buddy and associate, Big Dog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbuzz Posted April 25, 2010 Share Posted April 25, 2010 Well it's a start Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Comeau Posted April 25, 2010 Share Posted April 25, 2010 I bid $250 if the special attention from John Milledge continues to come with the car package. Nevermind the spares. I have tons! Anybody need a spare chassis for parts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Comeau Posted April 25, 2010 Share Posted April 25, 2010 Charlie, If you can get 110 lbs of ballast in the passenger floor and I weigh about 30 lbs less than you ( I'm about 170 with gear)..........that means I can stack 140 lbs of ballast down low and in the center mass of my 924S? Yikes! I think that will change a 944 into a 914?! What about a 150 lb driver with 160 lbs of ballast? I guess you could achieve perfect left/right balance for a handling advantage? But only if you're a smaller driver who could afford the weight......... Hmmmmm? Do we need to think about the direction this is going? Maybe a limit on the amount of ballast allowed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbuzz Posted April 25, 2010 Share Posted April 25, 2010 I only see one problem with your calculations. I am 230 with gear. That is 30 lbs better in your favor. And then there is the approximaitley additions 20-30 lbs still to take out of the car. I still have a full dash with glove box, heavy Weltmeister sway bars and a complete wire harness. I agree that a ballast weight maximum may have to be established. I propose a 120 lb. max. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbuzz Posted April 25, 2010 Share Posted April 25, 2010 One of the other problems with adding the weight is that it is forward of the CG when placed on the passenger floor. So it does front weight the car. This does not seem to be a big problem with my current car but was an issue with my old 944. I would have to add fuel to balance the handling of the car at times. It was easier to do this than change sway bar settings if I was short on time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
944-Spec#94 Posted April 26, 2010 Share Posted April 26, 2010 One of the other problems with adding the weight is that it is forward of the CG when placed on the passenger floor. So it does front weight the car.... Which is entirely the reason we limit ballast to the location it is. Even so one can be "smart" about ballast as well. Remember one need not strip the car to make weight. So consider you can still run a stock passengers seat and carpet all on the passenger's side. My thinking is that given our rules you cannot impact the CG or balance that much with ballast. Of course moving 20lbs can impact the car, but you should be able to dail that out with a set-up change. Some guys don't like the welt meister bars because they are heavy... They are also pretty low to the ground Need weight in the back... Hmm do you need that light weight muffer or will stock work better? And... if the later tubs area heavier since they have more sheet metal because they made stronger for the turbo cars.. Well... that mean they are STRONGER right? If you can make min weight and have a "stronger" chassis? Seems like Charlie's car is fast for two reasons. 1) Charlie is fast. 2) The car is dailed in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Dog Posted April 26, 2010 Share Posted April 26, 2010 Can you all say "CHEATER". Don't give Charlie any credit here. It is all the car. I know he is cheating because I am and he is still beating me. Big Dog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
944-Spec#94 Posted April 26, 2010 Share Posted April 26, 2010 Can you all say "CHEATER". Don't give Charlie any credit here. It is all the car. I know he is cheating because I am and he is still beating me. Big Dog Did you get your shifter fixed big dog? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbuzz Posted April 26, 2010 Share Posted April 26, 2010 Spoken like a true rebel!!!!! hahahahahahahaha Everything I learned about cheating came from Enzo Ferrari. He was the best. Paint your race cars red so they look fast. That way it is always understood that they should be fast. Hey wait a minute isn't your car red Big Dog? Did I see you at the Ferrari Cheating Bastard Racing School? Is your car ready yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Comeau Posted April 26, 2010 Share Posted April 26, 2010 Guys, No doubt both Charlie and his car are fast. No doubt Jim's a cheater......kidding! Now where's my scales?......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbuzz Posted April 26, 2010 Share Posted April 26, 2010 If you are a fish they are on the outside of your body Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Dog Posted April 27, 2010 Share Posted April 27, 2010 Still getting the car ready for PIR this weekend. Engine not running just yet. Hopefully tomorrow. And yes, Joe, the shifter has been lengthened back to stock length. As for scales Tim, catfish don't have any. Big Dog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Comeau Posted April 27, 2010 Share Posted April 27, 2010 I think he just called me a scum sucker...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbuzz Posted April 27, 2010 Share Posted April 27, 2010 I think the PC term is "bottom feeder". Scum Sucker just dosen't sound right anymore. Next thing ya know we will vote you in as "Govner" hahahahahahahahaha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.