How to submit rules suggestion for enduro min weight?

[ST#97]

So, who else feels the min weight calc is not only confusing, possibly unclear and VERY unfair to the average american club racing driver?

 

I'd like to suggest remove the goofy weight calculation for enduros and just simplify it to be the same as your respective sprint race class. Ex...if an AI car is supposed to weigh 3100lbs with driver post race...then that is the post race method for weighing the car.

 

This last weekend, we got DQ'd for being under weight by 58lbs...when in fact we were already 20lbs over for AI with our lightest driver and 100lbs heavy for AI with our heaviest driver. Seems unfair to have to go beyond our class legal ballast limits to compete just because we are fat guys!

 

Anyone else like the idea of just meeting your respective class rules so you can keep eating donuts and drinking beer?

[kbrew8991]

because of the differing weights of multiple drivers the weight should be done without driver post race for enduros only. Now setting/altering that correction factor (currently 180) to reflect the average driver is another story.

 

- KB, who is on the skinnier side and still 175lbs with driver gear on

 

MFW - got a suggestion of how that wording could be written to be more straightforward?

[ST#97]

 

MFW - got a suggestion of how that wording could be written to be more straightforward?

 

Still thinking on that one actually...but, if we are having to refer back to your actual class min weight anyway, then do a bunch of goofy math, why not keep it simple and just use the original min weight with driver? it would require less car prep and maybe attract more cars? Just a thought... Besides, trying to level the weight of the car for varying driver weights really makes no sense. I'd like to see what Grand Am or other endurance series do for post race weight measurements. I've always thought it was a Min weight with driver...Period. I guess next time, I'll remember to pee in the seat to leave some weight in the car before I get out!

 

 

 

Only thing our car owner suggested is that NASCAR uses 240lbs for a driver reference which is a much more realistic measure of us "average Joes". 180lbs as an average makes me think the rules committee thinks we are all lean and handsome F1 drivers or something! Handsome Maybe...lean? = not so much!

 

Just looking for a more realistic suggestion. I think after a few days the red mist will wear off and we will probably be back. At least we had the overall winner sweatin' pretty hard wondering if we were going to beat them. It would have been much worse had we gotten first overall and then been DQ'd.....so there are SOME positive things about our situation....right?

[ffspecracer]

I'm all for a change. In class, me and car are 20 lbs over class weight. But for Enduros I have to add about 60 lbs to the car.

[ST#97]

I'm all for a change. In class, me and car are 20 lbs over class weight. But for Enduros I have to add about 60 lbs to the car.

 

Seems that is pretty typical for the average joe....60 to 70lbs.

[bpanther]

MFW,

 

Write an email to Jerry. Get a good sampling of weight from all the drivers who ran the 6 hour. Ask Midwest for their weigh-in sheets from their biggest looser challenge. Need solid data to back it up along with a thought out request of why the rule could be improved.

 

 

 

Suggest that the driver weight be raised to xxx as 180 is not reflective of the "growing" population. Is it a safety issue where adding extra ballast just for 1 endurance race per season is not feasible?

[slammed_93_hatch]

Grand-Am, and ALMS/LMS, FIA GT endurance series, all measure/spec the weight of the car to be 'dry'.

 

 

For example, say you just finished qualifying in GA they pull you into impound and want you to roll across the scales.

 

They pump the tank DRY, and some times will look inside the tank to make sure there is no more fuel, and then role you across the scales.

 

 

So when you look through the GA rule book all of the weights given are not including Gas or driver.

 

If you think about it, this is close to what NASA is doing, except they dealing with cars that already have min weights with driver so they just assign a 'spec' weight for the drivers.

 

 

No it isn't fair, but them the breaks...

 

 

IMO a bigger loop hole is the fact they they weigh the car as it comes off track, and this could be (and sometimes is purposely) done with a lot of fuel on board (at least in the longer races.)

 

IE you make your last stop 30 mins from the end of the race and top the car off, you come across the scales 10lbs over you minimum weight. You/the car where actually under weight for parts of the stint..

[Glenn]

As a data point. In CMC I cross the scales at 50-60lbs over my 3200 min. For E2 I have to add 75-90 lbs of ballast to the car. But for the enduro, we plan on finishing w/ a dry tank. In the CMC races, I'll finish about 4 gallons down from full. A full fuel load is 96lbs for my car.

 

As for it being unclear? I've understood if just fine each of the last 3 years. In fact, over all 3 enduro races NASA TX has had, your the first team I recall getting DQ'ed for this.

[richard migliori]

I thought that the enduro rules address that cars from other sanctions as well as NASA must meet their respective class rules. So why are there different weight rule changes from sprint class to enduro class? I have never heard of such a rule and been doing enduros for 7 years now in ES, EO. and E1 and all cars where to sprint class specs and no mods for enduro racing and never any trouble. In 2010, I was called on the E1 car because we had 2 fuel pump systems on the car and CMC does not permit it. That was it. So I am confused at this weight thing and why your would have to be heavier than your respective class when the enduo classes are set up to accommodate and based on sprint class specs? doesn't make sense to me.

 

RM

[Glenn]

It makes total sence. I'm 250 lbs. My car is legal +50lbs for CMC w/ me in it. My enduro co-driver is 150lbs. My car w/ him would be 50bls light for CMC. So at what point during the race is the car legal enduro wise for the class it bases out of (CMC)? The answer is - only when I'm driving. So how do we balance the playing field? My guess is the 180 lb driver was considered typical to whoever wrote the rules. The average weight between me and my co-driver is only 200lbs, 20 off the NASA model. Otherwise, we would use 100lb drivers for the first xxxx.x hrs and swap in a heavier person for the final stint to ensure we were legal weight wise. Thats not really fair is it? I dont think the 180 lb NASA model is fair, but the method is sound to me. Since enduro class weight is legal base class minimum less 180 lbs, it take the flyweight drivers out of the loop.

 

Personally, I wouldnt matter either way w/ me and my co-driver. We would still have to add 50-75lbs a ballest to the car for the enduro if weights were w/ or w/out driver.

[WacoRacer]

FYI - I've been talking/working with Jerry on this issue for 2 weeks. He is gathering data now.

[Glenn]

Thanks. Keep us posted.

 

What info is he gathering?

[WacoRacer]

I know he's talking with some rules writers and some teams.

[ST#97]

Any updates on this or are there deadlines for rules submissions...? I'm guessing you guys are working on those now instead of November or December...right?

[richard migliori]

Let me get this right..... If you are running a car in endurance and when you get below 10 gallons and become to light, you are then subject to disqualification because of weight? So it is just as important to know everyone's weight throughout their fuel cycle and drivers weight changes and call foul when they fall into that window. I would hardly think NASA would entertain the idea of calling a competitor off the track when someone protests the weight. I would suspect the rule would stand. RULES are RULES and must be followed and enforced. I vote to change the rule...weight of this circumstance and nature is not a factor in an endurance race....Case and point: My car is 400 lbs over weight and wins on a regular basis.

 

RM