Seat back brace question

[Scany]

Hi, I'm hoping to do my first TT event this upcoming event in August at Summit Point. I've got a BMW 325is that is prepared for Spec3. In the car I have a Kirkey 68 series road race containment seat (their new one) installed by Piper Motorsport. Since Kirkey didn't provide any instructions about a back brace it wasn't installed at the time. I will need to get one eventually, but as I'm sure all of you know, we can't get everything at once all the time, so I'm wondering if I'm required, will I fail inspection, by not having a back brace on the seat in TT?

 

Any good back brace recommendations? I've found some at OG Racing and I/O Port but can't really seem to make up my mind or see what's good and whats bad.

 

Thanks!

[Shawn M.]

Hi, I'm hoping to do my first TT event this upcoming event in August at Summit Point. I've got a BMW 325is that is prepared for Spec3. In the car I have a Kirkey 68 series road race containment seat (their new one) installed by Piper Motorsport. Since Kirkey didn't provide any instructions about a back brace it wasn't installed at the time. I will need to get one eventually, but as I'm sure all of you know, we can't get everything at once all the time, so I'm wondering if I'm required, will I fail inspection, by not having a back brace on the seat in TT?

 

Any good back brace recommendations? I've found some at OG Racing and I/O Port but can't really seem to make up my mind or see what's good and whats bad.

 

Thanks!

 

 

15.6.22 Seat Back Support

A seatback support must be made to hold the seat from going back in the event of a

crash. A plate should be used to distribute the load. No bolts, corners, or sharp objects

should be placed in such a manner that could lead to a possible puncture of the driver in

a high impact crash. Proper design and installation is crucial to safety and it is

recommended that the driver employ the services of a professional race car builder for

this, as well as all other vehicle safety items. An exception may be made for those seats

homologated to, and mounted in accordance with, FIA 8855-1999 or 8862-2009

standards. Those seats that qualify for the aforementioned exception must conform to

the entire FIA 8855-1999 or 8862-2009 set of regulations, as applicable. This includes a

mandatory seat replacement, or use of a seat back brace, for any seat more than five (5)

years old (8899-1999) or more than ten (10) years old (8862-2009).

[smokinjoe]

You are not required in TT to have either a cage and/or a seat back brace. You won't fail until you move up to PT and beyond.

[Scany]

Thank you!

 

I will try to get a back brace asap regardless.

[Shawn M.]

You are not required in TT to have either a cage and/or a seat back brace. You won't fail until you move up to PT and beyond.

 

 

 

Thats not entirely true.

 

Once you start installing safety items and changing out stock interior items, you must comply with the CCR. Wether its in HPDE or TT, it all must meet the requirements of the CCR. This is where a fundamental understanding of the CCR from new drivers comming into NASA pay off. Many people are hesitant to read and understand whats in there, but there are alot of answers right there in the CCR and/or class rules.

[TurboShortBus]

Shawn, you are quoting rules from the Competition section of the CCR. The Time Trials class, as you know, is governed by the HPDE section of the CCR.

 

For my own clarification, where in the CCR is it stated that certain items installed on HPDE cars must meet the Competition section rules? Simply saying that "you must comply with the CCR" is just a blanket statement, possibly as a CYA measure, but there are 2 specific and different sections (HPDE and Competition) in the CCR.

 

If this is truly the case, then we should be disqualifying a serious percentage of the HPDE-1/2/3/4 and TT cars in tech every weekend, including mine.

 

I'm not saying that it's not a good idea to follow the guidelines in the Competition section when building an HPDE or TT car; I'm only saying that, per my interpretation, it's not required.

 

Mark

[Eric J.]

Shawn, you are quoting rules from the Competition section of the CCR. The Time Trials class, as you know, is governed by the HPDE section of the CCR.

 

For my own clarification, where in the CCR is it stated that certain items installed on HPDE cars must meet the Competition section rules? Simply saying that "you must comply with the CCR" is just a blanket statement, possibly as a CYA measure, but there are 2 specific and different sections (HPDE and Competition) in the CCR.

 

If this is truly the case, then we should be disqualifying a serious percentage of the HPDE-1/2/3/4 and TT cars in tech every weekend, including mine.

 

I'm not saying that it's not a good idea to follow the guidelines in the Competition section when building an HPDE or TT car; I'm only saying that, per my interpretation, it's not required.

 

Mark

 

Some of the wording may be open to interpretation, but in the HPDE section of the CCRs there are some places, e.g., 11.4.7 regarding Roll Bars, 11.4.8 regarding Harnesses, that reference compliance to CCR section 15 (i.e., competition Required Safety Equipment).

[jason]

"It's best to contact the TT director of the region you plan to compete in."

[TurboShortBus]

Based on these criteria:

 

1. Time Trial car, which falls under HPDE rules

2. No mention of a roll bar or roll cage by the owner/driver

 

Per my interpretation, I would refer to this particular rule (bolding/italics added by me):

 

11.4.12 Seats

All seats must be securely fastened to the structure of the car such that they are strong enough to withstand a major impact. If replaced, the replacement seat should be installed according to the manufacturer’s instructions.

 

If stock seats are to be used with a roll bar/cage, care should be taken to prevent the seat from submarining under the rollbar. Care should also be taken to prevent the occupant from hitting his/her head on the roll bar/cage.

 

Passenger seats must meet the same requirements, per the CCR, as the driver seat, if used by passengers. Note- The passenger seat does not have to match the driver’s seat.

In my opinion, there is too much use of the word "should" and not enough use of the word "shall," but I'm sure that a lawyer somewhere already read and approved the CCR.

 

Mark