Need to put the car on a diet for TT - Help!

[ILikeEsses]

I weighed my Porsche 996 C4S with me in it and 1/4 tank of fuel - - 3,580 pounds.

I need to put it on a diet for TT next year and really need some creative ideas.

 

Challenge: I do not want to go for the obvious first since the car is still a daily driver and I want to keep it that way for a couple more years. Can I remove the A/C? Sure. But I like it in the summer.

So the challenge is to remove things (Lighten things up) without sacraficing too much yet in daily drivability.

 

Can you offer up ideas?? THANKS SO MUCH.

[Cobra4B]

Eh... You have an AWD P-car.... it's going to be a bit on the porky side. The main things you can do for TT are to run the lightest wheel/tire combo possible and remove the passenger seat. Since your engine is in the rear I doubt there's much weight to be gained from an exhaust system.

 

Over the years I grew tired of a dual-use car... a good street car is full of compromises for the track and a good track car isn't much fun to drive on the street. If you really get into this hobby get a dedicated track car... doesn't have to be a Porsche or anything

[kbrew8991]

open your wallet wide and start buying carbon panels I guess - the cheap/free stuff will all hurt that DD part. Or get over it being a DD...?

[Trevor57]

The only way you can make a car lighter, is by removing parts, or making the parts you have lighter. Why are you so concerned with the weight anyway?

[smokinjoe]

Aside from what has already been suggested, the cheapest way to counter weight is to add HP. The car remains driveable, safe for the street, etc.

 

Also, just because you have 3,500lbs doesnt imply its a bad thing. It's how that weight is distributed that determines if its a bad thing. Balance the weight and you'll have a much faster car. Invest in a nice set of coilovers and have the car corner balanced, with you, gear, tires and fuel in it. Also invest in better roll resistance. Change how the car transfers the weight. Slow down the progression.

[kbrew8991]

what's the car's listing and what does it dyno at?

(trying to figure out how much you've got to lose)

 

adding lightness helps acceleration, braking, cornering - doesn't help top end. Maybe that's how Joe is pulling on Z06s at Road Atlanta with an effin Sentra

[BlkGt3]

Exhaust can save up to 50#'s with straight pipes, Add the ceramic brakes to loose another 20 to 30#'s of unsprung weight, Change to race seats another 50#'s, lightweight wheels. I do not recommend a light weight battery as it is very easy to drain when you come off the track hot and the engine compartment fan runs after engine shutdown.

 

Peter

[Cobra4B]

Straight pipes will be stupid loud on a street car, PCCBs are butt-rape expensive (too bad you can't retrofit the ZR1's carbon ceramics yet.... still BR expensive but at least you get a reach around), and most race seats aren't very comfortable for longer drives to the track. Now if he's trailering then there are more options.

 

I have a light-weight battery in my Z06, but the fans don't run once you turn the car off.

[jason]

It doesn't take too many close calls at 150+ before you decide that TT is maybe not the place for a dual use car.

[TurboShortBus]

I just looked it up in the TT rules:

 

Porsche 996 C4S (3.6L) TTA 3240

 

I'm not sure how many ways there are to "creatively" remove 340 lbs while keeping your DD comfort items. In addition, installing a 4-point roll bar will add about 40 lbs (something highly recommended at TTA-level speeds), which will move you farther from your weight loss goal. Even a basic, bolt-in roll cage will be over 100 lbs.

 

If the significant weight loss is not possible, then an option is to submit a dyno sheet for the car, along with its minimum competition weight (whatever it ends up being after some parts removal, safety gear installation, or if you just leave it alone, etc.), to the National TT Director for a base re-class based on the car's RWHP and weight (then, you just take points for all categories except engine modifications and weight reduction). People do this all the time for extensive engine modifications, and I don't see why it can't be done for excessive weight reasons (note that you cannot simply "get points back" when using the standard TTA-TTF classification forms for being heavier than the car's base weight like you can with going to narrower tires).

 

Mark

[BlkGt3]

Straight pipes will be stupid loud on a street car, PCCBs are butt-rape expensive (too bad you can't retrofit the ZR1's carbon ceramics yet.... still BR expensive but at least you get a reach around), and most race seats aren't very comfortable for longer drives to the track. Now if he's trailering then there are more options.

 

I have a light-weight battery in my Z06, but the fans don't run once you turn the car off.

 

Didn't say it would be cheap, it is a P Car after all. Straight pipes are a whole lot cheaper than a Ti exhaust. P Car OEM seats suck, racing seats are actually more comfortable. make mine the Sparco Pro 2000.

 

Peter

[drivinhardz06]

If the significant weight loss is not possible, then an option is to submit a dyno sheet for the car, along with its minimum competition weight (whatever it ends up being after some parts removal, safety gear installation, or if you just leave it alone, etc.), to the National TT Director for a base re-class based on the car's RWHP and weight (then, you just take points for all categories except engine modifications and weight reduction).

 

Then go run TTE/PTE right?

[kbrew8991]

Then go run TTE/PTE right?

only if there are no Sentras signed up - or else!

[TurboShortBus]

If the significant weight loss is not possible, then an option is to submit a dyno sheet for the car, along with its minimum competition weight (whatever it ends up being after some parts removal, safety gear installation, or if you just leave it alone, etc.), to the National TT Director for a base re-class based on the car's RWHP and weight (then, you just take points for all categories except engine modifications and weight reduction).

Then go run TTE/PTE right?

If the car is heavy enough, it could happen!

 

Mark

[smokinjoe]

Cant wait till next year and the PTsEntra class!

[Vinny]

bro's....spec vinny class is full...move along now.

[ILikeEsses]

Guys:

 

Thank you. Keep the ideas coming!

 

the exercise I am going through is helping to prioritize the weight loss to, in order to get the biggest bang for the buck.

 

I can tell you the engine and HP is pure stock. It is rated at 325 to the crank. Whoever classed this car as TTA with the weight this puppy carries should see a doctor. I have thought about the Dyno sheet approach. That may get me into TTB. However, I would like to take her on a diet anyway. I have a couple of seconds to lose at most tracks to be competitive in TTA from what I am seeing. (I am still learning, so this is do-able).

 

The other thing I will tell you, is that I would rather remove things first since removing is FREE. Then I will focus on unsprung weight, then finally the sprung. Straight pipes are NOT an option since it is a DD. And Ceramic brakes are way out of the price range. ( I figure a pound of unsprung weight is worth 5 pounds sprung).

 

The suspension is the focus for this winter. Coilovers, lower and corner balance it, etc.

[dbgeek]

It doesn't take too many close calls at 150+ before you decide that TT is maybe not the place for a dual use car.

 

He said it indirectly, but I'll say the words you should hear at this point. Modding a car will only bring expense and destroy the DD-ability. If you are serious about TT (or even HPDE), buy a truck, trailer, and a dedicated track car (pre-prepared or not). This will allow you to have your DD and your track car optimized for their respective duties. You can buy a prepared race car for the price of those ceramic brakes. Food for thought...

[ILikeEsses]

dbgeek (et.al) - forgive thie digression. But, maybe this will help to know.

 

I thought about a dedicated track car, and nix'd the idea. Too much work and not the choice I wanted to make "AT THIS STAGE IN MY LIFE". Maybe at a different stage. But, there some major realities that drive my compromises.

 

1) I am not now, nor ever will be, a pro driver. I am 45+ and have 2 kids. When I got to the track last time, I removed my tools and mats from the car, as well as a child's booster seat! I liked that.

 

2) I could have gotten something like a used Exige (Much lighter), but it has no back seats. That meant no kids in the car. Not good.

(STORY: When my daughter was 3, she would sit in the back seat and say "Go 7 Daddy! Go 7!" I had no idea what she meant at first. Then I realized she was watching the tach. I smiled the rest of the day. I will not give up the backseat until they no longer fit. ) (Compromise)

 

3) I don't need to be the best. I drive to the track, remove some stuff, gas the car, and then run. Then I drive home. That is enough for me. No pickup truck, no trailer, no storage fees, etc. (Compromise)

 

4) I bought the C4S because I live in the Cleveland snow belt. When November comes, I will throw snow tires on it and have a different kind of fun all winter. This is a great DD. I figure if Porsche can run cars in the Dakar Rally, I can drive 'em in the snow. (Compromise)

 

I am doing this for MILES OF SMILES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

So I am used to compromises and am happy to make them.

The car is a pig in terms of weight. But even the car choice was a compromise.

[Cobra4B]

^ Based on your needs just get a light set of track wheels with a sticky street tire like a Nitto R2 or NT-01 or Toyo RA-1 or R888 and don't worry about it. Do TT just for the fun of having open passing and better trained drivers on track with you vs. worry about actually competing.

 

The "Go 7 Daddy!" is hillarious

[dbgeek]

I am doing this for MILES OF SMILES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

So I am used to compromises and am happy to make them.

The car is a pig in terms of weight. But even the car choice was a compromise.

It's good to hear you've actually thought about it. I hate to see people dump money into a DD car to make it 'competitive' on-track. When they're done, all they have it a car that isn't good at either job.

[BlkGt3]

^ Based on your needs just get a light set of track wheels with a sticky street tire like a Nitto R2 or NT-01 or Toyo RA-1 or R888 and don't worry about it. Do TT just for the fun of having open passing and better trained drivers on track with you vs. worry about actually competing.

 

The "Go 7 Daddy!" is hillarious

 

+1

 

 

The bigger question is are you prepared to walk away from your investment when, not if, an incident happens. That is why I now TT a CDTC "Cheap Disposable Track Car" E36M3 in TTC not the GT2 in TTU.

 

Peter

[Cobra4B]

+1

 

 

The bigger question is are you prepared to walk away from your investment when, not if, an incident happens. That is why I now TT a CDTC "Cheap Disposable Track Car" E36M3 in TTC not the GT2 in TTU.

 

Peter

IMO if he goes out there to just get better open track time it's really no different than advanced HPDEing. Some guys local to me run TTS and run a good bit off pace but prefer the TT format to HPDE. They're safe, relatively fast, and courteous on track to get out of the way when needed.

[yakisoba]

Good on you mate for understanding the compromises and still looking for weight reduction. I'd say unsprung weight first, definitely look at shocks, lighter brakes. Also, I note that one does not use the brakes a whole lot on the street, and on track they only have to last like five laps. Perhaps rotor mods a la Andy Hollis are something to consider? You'd be spending a LOT in rotors though, so it might be a bad idea. Get that passenger seat out of there, and otherwise try to lighten the car up high. Weight higher in the car is worse for your handling than weight carried lower.

 

The heavier the car, the more time it'll take to transfer weight. Slow hands == faster in those conditions, I would think. Get with a good driving coach who drives Porsche, and see what they have to say. I got MUCH faster when I ceased trying to drive the Vette like an open wheel car.

 

Having made the switch to a track only car, I can say it's liberating. However, I drove the compromise for four years. It is WAY better than no track time at all.

[dans2k]

If it doesn't already have it changing the seats and belts for a harness you can take the airbag stuff out that could save at least 20lbs