Rule change period coming up...

[ianacole]

The Rule Change Suggestion period will open on September 20 of each year. Competitors may suggest rule changes by posting a thread on the GTS section of nasaforums.com with the suggested change, reason for the change, and potential outcome of the change. The thread title shall be in the form of "Rule Change: Section X.X" so that competitors are clear on the suggested change. Competitors may offer comments on these threads until October 20, at which point the threads will be locked and the GTS Directors will debate the suggested changes and decide which shall or shall not be implemented. The GTS Directors may also implement changes of their own motion and may put these out for comment during the September 20-October 20 period. A revised draft of the rules will be issued by October 31 and rules will be made final by November 15.

 

Only one month away ... submit early, submit often This is your opportunity to help shape the direction of GTS.

[Lemming]

I'll continue to beat a dead horse. I'd like to see the minimum car weight and whp on every car at every event. I know that some regions do this, why not make it mandatory.

[mikew968]

Is it not on a compliance sticker on the windshield so the scruts at weight in can easily see it?

[Lemming]

Is it not on a compliance sticker on the windshield so the scruts at weight in can easily see it?

 

Not in the SE, I believe that it is a regional thing.

 

Plus, in the few years that I've been racing, I've only ever been called to the scales once and the scale was not working so they let everyone go.

[JSG1901]

Not in the SE, I believe that it is a regional thing.

 

Plus, in the few years that I've been racing, I've only ever been called to the scales once and the scale was not working so they let everyone go.

Wow. I can't think of the last weekend I wasn't weighed AT LEAST once (and usually several times). And I'll bet my car gets dynoed at least four times a year as a part of compliance testing.

[Keith Andrews]

Not in the SE, I believe that it is a regional thing.

 

Plus, in the few years that I've been racing, I've only ever been called to the scales once and the scale was not working so they let everyone go.

Wow. I can't think of the last weekend I wasn't weighed AT LEAST once (and usually several times). And I'll bet my car gets dynoed at least four times a year as a part of compliance testing.

 

Nice. That keeps the whispers to a minimum. Not throwing stones here but wish this was more the standard. Dyno and weight. It is basically our only rule.

[RSCoupe]

...And I'll bet my car gets dynoed at least four times a year as a part of compliance testing.

 

Hmm, dyno impound is determined by the series director, which is you. How convenient! You don't have to pay for yearly dyno certification!

[JSG1901]

...And I'll bet my car gets dynoed at least four times a year as a part of compliance testing.

Hmm, dyno impound is determined by the series director, which is you. How convenient! You don't have to pay for yearly dyno certification!

I know you're (kinda) kidding, but for the record...

 

You're right, of course, on both accounts Having said that, I set the guidelines for who goes to the dyno weeks ahead of the race based (for the most part) on where you finish qualifying and/or the race. There are some exceptions, but basically you're sent on a performance-based decision matrix. I determine the criteria ahead of time; your performance on the track determines whether or not it applies to you.

 

The truth of the matter is, if you're going slow I am less interested in finding out how much power you're making because, well, you're still going slow. When you get up to (or near) contingencies or podium finishes, well, I start getting a lot more interested in making sure you're legal.

 

In our region, as in most regions (I suppose), there are some people who consistently run at the front. I am fortunate enough to be one of these, and I think the system owes it to the rest of the racers to make darned sure that I and the rest of those drivers are legal. I know for a fact that I'm not intentionally cheating but if I were my competitors I would want me to prove it.

 

The net result is that there are a number of us who I am confident don't cheat who regularly get put on the dyno just to prove it, anyway. Oh, and periodically we catch someone who is not legal, whether it's intentional or not. In July, for instance, I came in after qualifying 20 lbs under weight. Totally unintentional but still out of compliance. So, off to the back of GTS for me (but I won the race anyway).

[Lemming]

Not in the SE, I believe that it is a regional thing.

 

Plus, in the few years that I've been racing, I've only ever been called to the scales once and the scale was not working so they let everyone go.

Wow. I can't think of the last weekend I wasn't weighed AT LEAST once (and usually several times). And I'll bet my car gets dynoed at least four times a year as a part of compliance testing.

 

Nice. That keeps the whispers to a minimum. Not throwing stones here but wish this was more the standard. Dyno and weight. It is basically our only rule.

 

Keith, I agree completely! I've asked for this for the last few years and nothing has happened. In all fairness though, I have missed most of this season due to the crash as CMP, so I will ask, have there been any weights taken in GTS this summer? I won't even mention, dyno, that's not even a possibility unless there is a protest.

[John Graber]

I agree with Scott. As a Series Director I do as Scott does when it comes to compliance of my ST Series. We complete a scrutinization form ahead of time listing the requirements, weight, dyno or other.

 

However, the dyno is a significant expense and not all Regions or events can warrant it. Scales on the other hand are common place and should be utilized often. All of our classes are told to report to tech after every qualifying session and race. From there they direct us to the scales, to the dyno or to our paddock. I often go to scales even if the waved me off just as a check. At the last Great lakes event I was scaled twice and dyno'd once during the weekend.

 

Also, we all have tech stickers on our windshield showing minimum weight and max HP. This not only allows anyone to check, but makes it very easy for tech to see who is compliant. the region will maintain a database of this info if provided by the Series Director or we can get blank stickers and write-in the compliance information. I usually walk through grid and update or check for accurate info.

[cstreit911]

In our region, as in most regions (I suppose), there are some people who consistently run at the front. I am fortunate enough to be one of these, and I think the system owes it to the rest of the racers to make darned sure that I and the rest of those drivers are legal.

 

Comments are spot on. Weighing in is the sole discretion of your series director. In our region, as well as in Scott's, if you're a regular front runner you can count on passing through scrutineering at some point during the weekend. I ensure that my car is checked at every opportunity for the same reasons that Scott does.

 

The window stickers are part of the process around here. Dyno numbers are no secret. (Cause of course everyone wants to demonstrate how overweight their cars are and how we're all running on last years 25 heat cycle tires, lol).

[Keith Andrews]

 

Keith, I agree completely! I've asked for this for the last few years and nothing has happened. In all fairness though, I have missed most of this season due to the crash as CMP, so I will ask, have there been any weights taken in GTS this summer? I won't even mention, dyno, that's not even a possibility unless there is a protest.

 

I believe only GTS 3 was on the scales Saturday at RA. I don't recall anyone going on Sunday. It might help if this was standardized. Why not just have the top 4-5 finishers go to the scales after every race?

[Bryancohnracing]

Umm, the CCR has a rule that requires the Top 4 in each class to report to Impound. We meet that rule by having all cars "report" and a Tech Official sends on cars we do not plan to weigh, inspect, etc.

 

So if your Top 4 are not reporting to Impound...might want to point out that little section of the CCR to your Series Director, Race Director, Region Director. Its possible everyone thinks the other has it under control or is following the CCR when in fact no one is. No finger pointing here either as we all make mistakes, mis-read a rule, etc. It happens.

 

In MW & GL the Impound Stickers are used in every class and they work very well. Our biggest problem is actually when a car show up in impound and doesn't have the sticker! We also perform regular safety inspections and escape tests. The escape test is a particularly fun way we indoctrinate Comp School grads!

 

We are happy to share the method to our madness. Send me a note at bcohn@nasamidwest "dot" com

[Fred Crawford]

Plus, in the few years that I've been racing, I've only ever been called to the scales once and the scale was not working so they let everyone go.

Wow. I can't think of the last weekend I wasn't weighed AT LEAST once (and usually several times). And I'll bet my car gets dynoed at least four times a year as a part of compliance testing.

 

Nice. That keeps the whispers to a minimum. Not throwing stones here but wish this was more the standard. Dyno and weight. It is basically our only rule.

 

Keith, I agree completely! I've asked for this for the last few years and nothing has happened. In all fairness though, I have missed most of this season due to the crash as CMP, so I will ask, have there been any weights taken in GTS this summer? I won't even mention, dyno, that's not even a possibility unless there is a protest.

 

Lemming, like you I have not raced much this season due to a crash at CMP. I have kept in touch with most folks and I believe I am safe to say there has not been a wiegh - in , in the Se this year. Maybe Drew ( director) could chime in. We need to every race weekend as far as I am concerned. The Dyno is more problematic. There is a portable unit in Charlotte, however I believe he told me he needed 20 pulls to just break even. GTS would have to offset fees to cover his weekend, I guess. Are we willing to have race fees go up ? Good question. Is there another way to solve the problem? As stated before the only rule we have is Hp vs lbs.

 

fc

[JSG1901]

It might help if this was standardized. Why not just have the top 4-5 finishers go to the scales after every race?

While this seems like a great idea, it may not always be practical. For instance, a couple weeks ago at Mid-Ohio we had 11 different classes racing in the Thunder race, including four GTS classes. Most of these other classes have weigh-in requirements, too. If you're not careful, pretty soon you have 30 or 40 cars in line for the scales and we'll never get through them.

 

I think you have to balance fairness with practicality. The problem--as it's being presented in this forum--seems to be more one of doing no compliane (such as in SE, apparently) rather than the exact number of cars that get weighed (or dynoed). If I'm not mistaken, that's a matter of just not following the rules more than of needing new ones.

[Keith Andrews]

It might help if this was standardized. Why not just have the top 4-5 finishers go to the scales after every race?

While this seems like a great idea, it may not always be practical. For instance, a couple weeks ago at Mid-Ohio we had 11 different classes racing in the Thunder race, including four GTS classes. Most of these other classes have weigh-in requirements, too. If you're not careful, pretty soon you have 30 or 40 cars in line for the scales and we'll never get through them.

 

I think you have to balance fairness with practicality. The problem--as it's being presented in this forum--seems to be more one of doing no compliane (such as in SE, apparently) rather than the exact number of cars that get weighed (or dynoed). If I'm not mistaken, that's a matter of just not following the rules more than of needing new ones.

 

Agree totally. 110 degrees and sitting in line to be weighed is no fun.

[mikew968]

Who cleans up all the "old" topics hat are no longer relavent on the forum? A 2 yr old post ought to go if there is nothing current.

[ianacole]

Who cleans up all the "old" topics hat are no longer relavent on the forum? A 2 yr old post ought to go if there is nothing current.

 

I don't know if there is an archival process for the forum ... but an old post may contain pertinent information for someone doing a search.

[Eric W.]

I also agree it would be a logistics nightmare to weigh top 4 after each session. MidAtlantic does it by class for certain sessions. Keeps people guessing and legal. Last race, everyone thought there would be no weight impound Sunday since the GTS2 race was near the end of the day, but guess what, surprise! Hope you made weight!!!

 

For our dyno impounds, it seems as of late MidAtlantic has a new policy, but I need to confirm with Cobetto. In the event docs, it suggests that if you get sent to dyno impound, YOU pay the $100 if you are illegal, but if you are not, NASA picks up the tab. This seems like a good approach ...

 

I also like the windshield class, hp/weight stickers, however, they always seem to fly off! (at least on my car). Maybe we need a vinyl coated sticker rather than straight paper?

[John Graber]

They just need to talk to Dave Royce, RD for Great Lakes & Midwest. This is easy stuff and he has been doing it for 4-5 years now. We have special stickers, random weighing, random dyno, full-time Race Driector and a good tech support team.