Chris F Posted February 16, 2005 Share Posted February 16, 2005 (first post for me here, hooray! Quick intro: Chris Fries, been an on-and-off autocrosser and HPDE'er with SCCA/BMWCCA/PCA for 6 years. Just signed up for my first NASA event, HPDE at VIR Feb 19/20.) Hi all, I was hoping you could give me some rule guidance on the classification system. I'm thinking about running Mid Ohio and/or Road America with the midwest guys this April. But, I'm not sure if my car is TTC, I think it is. Either way, I should be competitive in TTB if it comes to it. Here's where I need help. Apparently, lots of help. Car: 1998 Acura Integra Type R* (TTC + 5 points handicap) TIRES: DOT-approved R-compound tires +5 Plus size tire: +1 (Do I also have to add +1 for tires larger than stock, on OEM wheels?)205/50R15 vs. 195/55R15 Weight Reduction: Gutted Rear (+2) Engine/Drivetrain: Non-OEM forced induction +10 (Turbo, intercooled.) Cat-back exhaust +1 (This isn't free with Non-OEM FI?) Header: +2 (Free with FI?) Performance chip for Turbo engine +4 (Hondata) Boost Controller +4 (This isn't free with Non-OEM FI? easy to work around if I needed 4 points with a wastegate spring) Programmable electronics and fuel injection systems (0??? Does my Hondata count? It is a chipped Honda ECU from an earlier year, with a program tuned by a local mechanic). Changed OEM intercooler 0 (Free with FI? I have an intercooler.) Removal of emissions +1 Change fuel injectors +2 Suspension/Brakes: Full Coilover +7 (Is spring/strut now FREE? I don't have adjustable struts, but if I did, would they add another +4?) Brake Pads (duh!) +1 Roll bar/cages: (Free Roll Bar and five point harnesses, per NASA CCR) Total: 45-ish The whole F-I thing looks cheap-- but I didn't add points for an "Air Intake System", "Changed OEM Intercooler", or "Changed OEM Turbo". Not sure if I should have for a "header" either. I would have hoped this all got lumped into the "Non-OEM Forced Induction" bucket. Thanks for any help! Suggestions, official or otherwise, welcome. -Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
National Staff Greg G. Posted February 16, 2005 National Staff Share Posted February 16, 2005 Hi Chris, welcome to NASA TT. Your right that your car is right on the border between TTC and TTB, but here is how I would classify it: TTE base + 5pts +5 tires (no point for tire size--your wheels are still 15's, and the 205/50's are about the same diameter as the 195/55's) +2 gutted rear +10 turbo +1 catback exhaust +2 header +4 Performance chip for turbo +4 boost controller +2 intercooler +1 removal of emissions +2 change fuel injectors +1 brake pads +5 ? for your suspension--need more info. Do you have aftermarket coilovers or not? If you do, but they are not adjustable, and they replaced a coil over strut suspension, I would give you +2 for performance shocks and +3 for threaded adjustable spring perches. Adjustable coilovers would get the 7 points on most newer cars, and 9 on older cars. As listed above, it would barely be in TTC still, without a point to spare. If you get +7 for the suspension, you bump to TTB. Since it is possible to run an aftermarket turbo without an intercooler, boost controller, header, catback exhaust, they all get assessed points. The Hondata is still a controversial point. Your regional TT Director (soon to be announced for the Midwest region) will have to decide on this one. But, the way I'm handling this in SoCal is that if someone has a system that basically functions as an aftermarket chip, and cannot be re-programmed at the track, then I don't assess the +5 points. If the driver/crew can make changes to the ECU program at the track, then it gets assessed. So, you may be subject to the 5 points on this one. Sounds like a nice car. I'm surprised that you haven't changed sway bars, added camber plates (or changed suspension mounting points), or changed any of the stock bushings. I guess if you fall into TTB you'll have plenty of mod points left over for that. Your Midwest TT Director should be announced soon. Keep track on the Midwest's web site. Also, you can contact your NASA Regional Director, Lawrence Mansier for more info. Also, if you are going to run mid-Ohio, then Jim Petroski is the Regional TT Director for the Oh/Ind region, and he would decide on your final classification. You are correct that Road America would be in the Midwest region. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris F Posted February 16, 2005 Author Share Posted February 16, 2005 +5 ? for your suspension--need more info. Do you have aftermarket coilovers or not? If you do, but they are not adjustable, and they replaced a coil over strut suspension, I would give you +2 for performance shocks and +3 for threaded adjustable spring perches. Adjustable coilovers would get the 7 points on most newer cars, and 9 on older cars. They are aftermarket coilovers. OEM suspension on the Type R is a coilover style, too. They are threaded (height adjustable), but the shocks are NOT adjustable. Sounds like +5 is the right thing to do, thanks. Sounds like a nice car. I'm surprised that you haven't changed sway bars, added camber plates (or changed suspension mounting points), or changed any of the stock bushings. I guess if you fall into TTB you'll have plenty of mod points left over for that. No, no more mods!! Actually I may fall back to adjustable koni's on stock springs if I need to buy some points. The car was plenty fast with that setup. I haven't even tried the new coilovers yet (if they suck, I'll rip them off, they were cheap). The car IS a daily driver. The stock Type R swaybars are decent enough (24mm/22mm), and with a little front toe out I get plenty of turn-in. Lowering the car gave me some negative camber, enough that I'm not sure I'd remove any, and I wouldn't add more either. I personally do not have access to the Hondata tuning software, so this is not something that can/will be changed at the track. Hopefully I'll get a ruling consistent with yours. Thank you very much for the clarifications! I'd really like to make it out to MidO again, this may be a good opportunity to do that. (Edit, as hard as I tried to resist trash talking.... I have a power/weight ratio a little better than a Carrera S or C6 Vette, so I should do pretty well. The Type R can handle OK too. ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris F Posted July 9, 2005 Author Share Posted July 9, 2005 They are aftermarket coilovers. OEM suspension on the Type R is a coilover style, too. They are threaded (height adjustable), but the shocks are NOT adjustable. Sounds like +5 is the right thing to do, thanks. I disagree with myself. I say +2 for shocks, +2 for springs, +3 for perches. That's +7 total, same for coilovers. Sounds like a nice car. I'm surprised that you haven't changed sway bars, added camber plates (or changed suspension mounting points), or changed any of the stock bushings. I guess if you fall into TTB you'll have plenty of mod points left over for that. HAHAHAHA Yeah, until I crack a ringland in piston #3 at VIR.. and rebuilt the motor. TTB with very few points to spare No, no more mods!! Actually I may fall back to adjustable koni's on stock springs if I need to buy some points. The car was plenty fast with that setup. I haven't even tried the new coilovers yet (if they suck, I'll rip them off, they were cheap). I really like the new coilovers (FWIW, Omnipower Sport 12k/10k), although there are better ones out there... Boost Controller will be the first to go if I need a point. My "low boost" setting is plenty enough. TTYL, going to my first TT this weekend finally. Autobahn CC in Joliet IL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StlSupra Posted April 19, 2006 Share Posted April 19, 2006 curious to the outcome of the hondata points in the midwest region. i'm looking at a socketed ecu which is programmable but not by me nor at the track. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
National Staff Greg G. Posted April 19, 2006 National Staff Share Posted April 19, 2006 curious to the outcome of the hondata points in the midwest region. i'm looking at a socketed ecu which is programmable but not by me nor at the track. That would be a +5 for an N.A. engine under the '06 rules. At major events, or if any question exists as to whether one can reprogram at the track, the socket will be "sealed" for the weekend, and if the seal is broken the competitor would be DQ'd if the extra point(s) for having a programmable ECU at the track would send them up a class. Also, the rules regarding the addition of forced induction to an OEM N.A. car have changed significantly (new base class using dyno results and actual weight). And, I don't remember if Chris has sent me his info this year to re-classify the car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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