Newby looking for info about the S2000

[Ducky]

Hey, I have taken an Intro to Racing with Skip Barber and now I have the speed bug or a more in tune one now. SO, I have found NASA and am very interested in starting the HPDE but, need the car. I still can't get over how many opportunities there are to race your own car on a track it's awesome!

I am very interested in the Honda S2000 and it seems to have great abilities as is on the track. My main factor is price, this will be our second car and I don't want to have payments on it so I am looking to spend about 8 - 9K. I know this limits my choices but, I still am draw to the "04" or newer AP2. That is what i am hearing I should stick with.

So, what is the difference AP1 AP2, and would it matter to me if I want to continue on further in racing? I see the 02 is affordable but it sounds like the steering, braking and the throttle are touchy or out balance. Also, is it ok to start with a high mileage car 100K is cheaper, I figure it's a Honda and mileage isn't a concern on the road but on the track, I just don't want to be picking up pieces of motor off the track.

[kbrew8991]

they drive a little different I'm told, but I wouldn't be afraid of either really. People say the same thing about early and late 2nd gen MR2s but I can play with the alignment (rear toe) and get you to guess wrong if the car has the early or late suspension. You gotta realize that these are likely ricers without an ounce of car control experience saying this most of the time I've driven a student's AP1 and felt it was plenty predictable. If you're really worried do a few autocrosses to get the feel of it before you do your first HPDE. Cones are softer than tirewalls after all!

 

The big thing I would do is double check that the tracks in my region(s) will let S2000s run with the stock roll hoops or budget for an aftermarket rollbar and such if not.

 

Nothing all that wrong with Miatas as well, just less power but cheaper. Momentum cars are the best learning tools - you can't press the go-pedal to be fast or cover up mistakes, you've gotta nail the turns & braking instead and that's the hard part An S2000 is still a bit on the momentumn car side I feel though, so go with what excites you and fits your budget - and enjoy

[Ducky]

Thank you for your input, I believe I would not be happy an a Miata. During the racing course I did, our group of cars lapped every one of them several times throughout the day. I drove the Skip Barber open wheel car; LOVED IT! I need to learn Heel to toe.

My other question is, doing this kind of racing is How much should I plan on spending in a weekend? I have read the posts here about it but am hoping not to have to spend more than $500 for the racing costs.

[kbrew8991]

in the lower levels its probably 90% driver, 10% car - you'll probably start passing brand new people in Porsches and Corvettes with twice to three times the power you have as you get the hang of it and get ready to bump up to the next more advanced run group.

 

Costs - it all depends on the car and how hard it is on parts, consumables, etc. And of course entry fees, hotel, etc, but that sounds almost doable for an inexpensive car thats easy on stuff. Tough to tell for sure until you do one and get a feel for how long things last though.

[Joshua]

I started in HPDE in an S2000 and now track a Miata. There is much more aftermarket support for the Mazda and it is easier to drive at the limit. For 10k, you can build a force inducted Miata that will have the ability to embarrass any S2000 driver.

 

That said, the S2000 is a lot of fun too. Bethania Garage makes a roll bar that you'll need to add for some tracks. They are heavier and more expensive to run on the track than a Miata, but very rewarding when driven properly. I have an AP1 and the AP2s are a better place to start.

[laze1]

If you are learning to race on a budget..the Miata is a great way to go for an open top car, the S2K is fine also but more money to purchase and maintain.

 

Note: an early BMW is a great choice for a closed car (E30 or E36)

 

However, many track will not allow open top cars to participate WITHOUT a full on roll bar/cage....which in a S2000 means the folding top will not work any longer. Not sure about the Miata, but roll bars make a DD hard to live with in many cases...

 

And you will want proper seat belts...and you would only use racing style 5 point or 6 point belts if you have a correctly engineered roll bar in an open car....

[Suspension]

I have been tracking my AP1 s2000 for 4 years now, about 4 track days a year. If you're concerned with expenses, I would buy an AP1 as it will keep your initial costs down. After that, both cars are mechanically identical (save the engine size, and small details like trans ratios, clutch delay valve and rear toe link geometry) so their consumable costs will be identical.

 

The AP2 puts out slightly more horsepower than the AP1 and if you'd like to run Time Trials you'll notice the AP2 is given 6 more initial points than the AP1 (probably for this power reason). So if you're considering running in Time Trials, consider the trade off between the AP1 points and the AP2 power. The ideal Time Trial s2000 is the '06+ non-CR model as the ECU can be retuned for large power gains, but that's out of your price range for now.

 

My s2000 has been bulletproof on the track. No issues or unscheduled maintenance (other than yearly trans, diff and brake fluid flushes - standard for any track car). My car has 45,000 miles but I know plenty of s2000s that are tracked with over 100,000 miles. Brakes are relatively cheap (pads and rotors) and are plenty good enough to stand up to track day demands (though heavy brakers have been known to crack rotors). Of course all consumables for a Miata will be cheaper as they are smaller, there is a larger aftermarket for them and there are just more cars.

 

The car is not as "twitchy" as its (ill-given) reputation suggests. It is very controllable and very predictable. Though, I will say, if you get past a certain slip angle, it is very hard to catch as there isn't much steer angle. I find it very enjoyable and rewarding. Let me know if you have other questions.

[Ducky]

Well Thought this might happen, you guys are great for helping me out but now you got me thinking about the Miata. For the cash I can pick one up with, it sounds nice. But, I am stuck on Horsepower Miata 140hp the S2000 200. I guess I'll have to look around for awhile to see what I can find. I also read that I can volunteer at NASA events and build some credits for when I am ready to do the HPDE. This way it will give me some up close exposure to the different choices on race weekends.

I like the suggestion I first got about trying auto cross first and there are a few in the area and Clemson is close to me also.

 

Thank you everyone, this seems to be a great group enthusiasts I do appreciate all the knowledge you want to throw my way.

[Lucid Moments]

I've said so many times that if I had things to do over I would start with a Miata. There is so much aftermarket support for the car that it isn't even funny. And everything about how to make those darned things run at the absolute limit is known and easy to find. And since you are concerned about power there are plenty of ways to make gobs of power out of a Miata. Strap a turbo kit on one and you can have all the power you need.

 

Plus if you do decide to get into actual racing and not just track days there is a whole class designed specifically for the Miata.

 

 

Don't get me wrong, the S2000 is a great car. I am actually something of a Honda loyalist for that matter. But for a track car the Miata is simply a better, more cost effective solution.

[Bnjmn]

Get the S2k. I have an AP1, couldn't be happier. The car needs nothing out of the box. It will run all day on the track without an issue. Your only consummables are discs and pads and tires. I have an early AP1 and upgraded the oil squirter bolts and the retainers (to AP2) in case of mechanical overrev (which can crack the AP1 retainers, the AP2 are tuffer, but could still crack if you really miss a shift as with any car).

 

There is plenty of aftermarket support, but for the most part I don't think it is needed (other than tires and wheels).

 

The car is easy to drive quickly (inspires confidence), I have not experienced this oversteer issue that I read so much about.

 

I have the Hard Dog double diag bar w/lower harness bar. You will need to do a custom install (some welding) to run the bar, harnesses and OEM belts. The bar with the higher harness bar anchors the harnesses in an unsafe position and I would not use such a setup or get in a car with such a setup.

[DWNSHFT]

Go to Grassrootsmotorsports.com; there have been lots of discussions there about the S2000.

 

 

David